Ryan
Kai Lord
Posts: 69
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Post by Ryan on Aug 16, 2008 16:51:41 GMT
Does anyone here know if the word "Kai" is copyrighted? I was thinking of calling the program on the iPhone iKai, then I thought maybe even that wouldn't be allowed. If not, I'll need a new idea. :S
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Post by Doomy on Aug 16, 2008 17:06:36 GMT
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Post by alderaine on Aug 18, 2008 8:50:16 GMT
Well, if you are hosting it on AON, then no problem at all. If not - well, the word Kai would be the least of your worries
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Post by Doomy on Aug 18, 2008 10:55:50 GMT
Is there any reason why you couldn't put "Lone Wolf" in the title? It's a commonly-used expression, so I doubt anyone could claim copyright on it. Joe Dever certainly didn't invent it.
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Post by alderaine on Aug 18, 2008 11:11:49 GMT
Copyright is a tricky area. AON certainly have distribution rights on any LW-related material including all the spin-off games we are writing. I think you might find that if you use the term "Lone Wolf" in the context of a Kai book you might be pushing it! But, as previously mentioned, we are guessing that if you made a character sheet for the iPhone that REQUIRED the user to have a copy of the book (i.e. you couldn't use it for any useful purpose otherwise) you'll probably be fine - but that's just a thought, not any form of permission. If in doubt, you could always track down Joe directly and ask - I'm told there are ways to get to him through the web.
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Post by outspaced on Aug 18, 2008 12:58:20 GMT
Lone Wolf (relating to Kai, Magnamund, etc.) is actually a trademark held by Joe Dever. (See this interview with the man himself for details.)
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Ryan
Kai Lord
Posts: 69
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Post by Ryan on Aug 18, 2008 14:38:42 GMT
Copyright is a tricky area. AON certainly have distribution rights on any LW-related material including all the spin-off games we are writing. I think you might find that if you use the term "Lone Wolf" in the context of a Kai book you might be pushing it! But, as previously mentioned, we are guessing that if you made a character sheet for the iPhone that REQUIRED the user to have a copy of the book (i.e. you couldn't use it for any useful purpose otherwise) you'll probably be fine - but that's just a thought, not any form of permission. If in doubt, you could always track down Joe directly and ask - I'm told there are ways to get to him through the web. This copyright problem is like a brick wall that I keep bashing my head into. And I'm afraid to release anything where I might have legal problems, especially on something as high-profile as the iPhone. Can you give any hint as to how I can contact Joe to clear this up once and for all? I'm obviously not going to be bothersome, and I can guarantee that I won't pass the contact information on any further. But for exactly such issues, I think he might be interested to hear from someone who is trying to avoid infringing on his IP.
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Ryan
Kai Lord
Posts: 69
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Post by Ryan on Aug 18, 2008 15:54:12 GMT
Well, I decided to try getting in contact with Joe through Mongoose Publishing, and received this email from Matthew Sprange: "Hi there, Many thanks for getting in touch. However, I have to say the rights for iPhone apllications with Lone Wolf have already been taken. Regards, Matthew Sprange Mongoose Publishing www.mongoosepublishing.com" So, I'm sad to say, that unless you guys have any other ideas, I'm going to have to stop development on the iPhone application. I just hope that someone actually does something with the rights, and doesn't just sit on them.
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Post by alderaine on Aug 18, 2008 15:58:35 GMT
Is there any way to find out who has the rights?
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Post by Doomy on Aug 18, 2008 17:20:55 GMT
Well, we know Ksatria has the rights to a Lone Wolf computer game, maybe that covers iPhone stuff?
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Ryan
Kai Lord
Posts: 69
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Post by Ryan on Aug 18, 2008 18:31:36 GMT
I really find it a pity. Just wanted to say. I really hope that they use the license, and that it doesn't just die on the vine, like so many projects tend to do (not specifically LW projects, just in general). I was really getting into the project - was hoping to come up with something nice. *sigh* Back to being just an observer. Though maybe someone has a version of Lone Wolf software that they'd like to have ported to the Mac? Guess I could help there, and if it were distributed on PA, it wouldn't have the same problems as the iPhone software had.
Just a pity that it won't go any further, just because of silly legal reasons. Ah, well.
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Post by alderaine on Aug 19, 2008 8:27:55 GMT
Well I would never call legal reasons silly - they protect people's livelyhoods. I'm sure you'd be upset if you invested years in a saleable application, and somebody put a free one out. I would recommend to anybody thinking of starting a new LW project that they would be best waiting for the Common Navigation File project to complete, as that will provide common bones to make building book readers much easier. I don't know how far Jeremy (jsager) got with the project, but I am certain he would appreciate help with it - jot him a line & see what there is to do.
Note that we know that Ksatria's license doesn't prevent us from writing book readers for any platform, so it can't be them preventing the iPhone. It is also possible Mongoose are mistaken - it is worth persuing.
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Post by Doomy on Aug 19, 2008 8:57:36 GMT
Copyrights exist to stop people from unfairly stealing your work. But there is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from independently creating a work that serves the same purpose and putting it on the market or even making it available for free. Competition is good. Facts and ideas cannot be copyrighted, only the form in which they are presented. It is also possible Mongoose are mistaken What? Mongoof make a mistake? That's just crazy talk, man!
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Post by alderaine on Aug 19, 2008 9:35:41 GMT
That's not quite true - if you created a beverage, and called it coca cola, you would be infringing trademark. Lone Wolf is trademarked, so any Kai- or book-related material bearing the title Lone Wolf automatically comes under trademark infringement, as noted above. It is definitely possible to register generic "rights" for an idea, and to actively protect those rights. There is a fine line - if you created a book about a warrior who's people had all been killed and they were trying to rebuild their civilisation, but did not use the words Kai, Lone Wolf, or any of the actual discipline names, for example, you would be pretty much safe. Serving the same purpose is one thing, but using actual copyrighted material (i.e. Kai, Lone Wolf in this instance) definitely crosses the line unless you obtain permission. I am not a lawyer though!
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Post by Doomy on Aug 19, 2008 10:23:02 GMT
That's not quite true - if you created a beverage, and called it coca cola, you would be infringing trademark. Yeah, but I would be within my rights to create a similar product and call it "cola." No infringement there, providing my labelling is distinct from yours (trademark). Didn't know that yesterday. I'm frankly surprised Joe was able to pull that off, since the term was apparently first used in print back in 1909, according to a brief web search for its etymology I did yesterday (no citation given, sadly). However it does mean I was wrong yesterday ... Yes. Conceded. It is possible to protect rights to an "intellectual property", such as a work of fiction using a specific setting and characters, but parallel development of near-identical products happens all the time. Blu-Ray v HD-DVD is just one example. Yeah, I totally agree with that. George Lucas didn't sue Joe Dever after all, and neither did Gary Gygax. Nor me. I've had a tiny bit of job-specific legal training, which included copyright, but didn't really cover the laws pertaining to registered trade marks. Hence my habit of forgetting about them!
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