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Post by askhati on May 28, 2010 13:06:10 GMT
Ja, hence my reluctance to use it without some proper fore-thought. Adding a 'kill count' to your weapon would also allow players to survive future adventures without running into scenarios where you need a magic weapon (and CS bonus) to stand a chance against some boss creature - e.g. you can either kill the boss in book 6 with your magic sword from book 2, OR you can kill him with the same regular weapon that you fought through books 3-5 with, but which will now carry a reasonable CS bonus due to the 'kill-count' system.
Hmmm... *ponders*
I might actually implement this in the Drakkar series already, but place a limit on the bonus that the kill count can give you: Drakkar series: max bonus of +2 CS Death Knight series: max bonus of +3 CS Ziran series: max bonus of +5 CS
That way, a first-time player in the Ziran series can take a regular Axe, use it consistently for a few adventures, and then have weapon capable of competing with the magic weapons that a veteran would be lugging along from the first books in the Drakkar series.
Hmmm... *ponders some more*
This will be investigated!
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Post by pi4t on May 28, 2010 15:23:48 GMT
How about having other ways of getting trophies (and increase the definition of 'trophies')? Eg the stealth option might give you a small, personal possession of the enemy you're dodging, that counts as a trophy?
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Post by askhati on May 29, 2010 20:36:32 GMT
Bugger... Pressed the wrong key and wiped my whole post.
Okay, the trophy system has been implemented in the Drakkar series as the Kill Notch. Whenever you defeat an opponent while wielding a regular Weapon (not a Special Item), you get to add one Kill Notch to the weapon. Once you have accumulated 15 Kill Notches, the Weapon gains a permanent +1 CS bonus, and the number of Kill Notches is reset to zero. The Weapon will then continue to accumulate Kill Notches as usual, with the rule being 15 KN = +1 CS. The maximum number of CS bonuses that the weapon can get through the KN system will depend on the the level of the wielder: +2/+3/+5 CS at Drakkar/Death Knight/Ziran level.
Another system that I am planning to implement, but only from the Death Knight series onwards, is the Two-Handed (2H) Weapon. Unlike the regular weapons from the LW adventures, which can be used in conjunction with shields (yes, even the Spear/Quarterstaff/Broadsword story...), 2H weapons will not be useable in conjunction with shields. They will also not be able to be dual-wielded like regular 1H weapons. 2H weapons will instead usually give a small, fixed CS bonus, as well as a damage bonus that depends on the ENDURANCE score of the wielder. The logic here is that only a strong, healthy wielder will be able to swing the 2H weapon with enough force to deal extra damage, while a wielder that has sustained severe wounds and blood losses will be able to use it only for defensive moves.
As example: the Greatsword is a 2H Weapon that gives +2 CS, and deals 1 point extra damage for every 8 points of current EN of the wielder. If it was wielded by - for example - a CS 15 / EN 26 character, that character would become a 17/26 fighter and deal (26/8 = 3.25 = 3) points extra damage each round. However, as the wielder takes damage and his EN drops, his damage potential with the 2H weapon will also drop - once his EN drops below 24, his damage bonus will decrease from +3 to +2. Below 16 EN, the bonus reduces to +1 damage, and below 8 EN he gets no damage bonus.
The system was introduced mainly because a) dual-wielding will be limited to Death Knights with Weaponskill II b) I figured not everyone would satisfy condition a) c) Death Knights with massive, two-handed axes and swords is just something one has to take advantage of...
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Post by Zero on Jun 1, 2010 14:01:16 GMT
How about having other ways of getting trophies (and increase the definition of 'trophies')? Eg the stealth option might give you a small, personal possession of the enemy you're dodging, that counts as a trophy? It occurs to me that sneaking past a bunch of enemies wouldn't really build your endurance or skill in combat; you're not fighting, after all. Is there a practical way to gain some kind of "stealth experience" from successfully avoiding (not necessarily evading!) combat, while keeping the somewhat rules-light concept of a gamebook?
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Post by askhati on Jun 1, 2010 14:54:20 GMT
The best way to do that in the gamebook is to reward the player with some item(s) for avoid/outwitting certain opponents... While the LW books usually go the opposite way: you get rewarded for killing things! An exception was the Silver Bow of Duadon though - if you skipped the competition, you could get a Bronin Warhammer and Taunor Water instead.
Another option: e.g. if you sneak past the guard, you can steal his weapon that has X number of Kill Notches on; if you fight and kill him, the weapon breaks during the last round and you don't get it.
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Post by pi4t on Jun 1, 2010 16:08:53 GMT
I thought kill notches were effectively how experienced you were with that weapon. Surely having 15 dents in your sword won't make it work any better! It might make it more likely to break. Hmm, that gives me an idea that would make life more interesting. If your weapon has a chance of breaking, increasing as you kill more enemies with it, it becomes a matter of 'do I want to use the Sommerswerd equivalent and risk losing it and being unable to use it to deflect magic, etc, or use a weapon with lots of kill notches, but risk losing it, or use a new, poorer weapon?'
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Post by beowuuf on Jun 1, 2010 17:50:41 GMT
I assume you just become accustomed to that particular weapon, and its exactl balance, etc. Plus you've probably customised it. Who knows
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Post by pi4t on Jun 1, 2010 18:02:08 GMT
You're already accustomed to a weapon because someone else has fought with it???
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Post by beowuuf on Jun 1, 2010 20:14:26 GMT
Lol, missed that. Umm...yes, yes you can ...because...he fights like you...*runs*
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Post by pi4t on Jun 1, 2010 21:25:02 GMT
*Steals beowuuf's avatar's sword* *becomes magically accustomed to it*
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Post by askhati on Jun 2, 2010 7:46:50 GMT
Hahahaha... Okay, maybe that is not quite what I meant. I had something in mind where the weapon actual becomes a focus of Good/Evil the more you fight with it, and starts to show quasi-magical abilities the longer you use it (like the Legacy items from AD&D?). This would then make the CS bonus unique to that specific weapon - if you had and lost a +4 CS Mace, you cannot pick up another Mace and get the +4 CS bonus again "simply because you are used to fighting with that type of weapon".
Also, having weapons that gain a 'personality' in that way was avoided in the LW series by the fact that LW was already using a god-weapon right from the start - LW had no need for using the same regular weapon over and over again. My Drakkar character starts out as a regular army scout though, and has no access to magical weapons for some time. for him, it would therefore make more sense to benefit from this system.
Also, I'm thinking of adding a customisable bonus to the weapon once the player reaches Ziran level. The max Kill Notch bonus that you can get at Ziran level is +5 CS - BUT, instead of using your last set of 15 Kill Notches to upgrade the weapon from +4 CS to +5 CS, you could instead accumulate 20 Kill Notches and gain a non-CS bonus. Maybe a 1-point damage increase, or a 2-point bonus to Mindforce attacks, or or or...
That way, you can max out the weapon as either a +5 CS weapon, or a +4 CS weapon with something extra on the side.
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Post by askhati on Jun 2, 2010 19:53:30 GMT
Progress update: - written section count up to 24/118
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Post by egleris on Jun 7, 2010 10:57:57 GMT
This is all really interesting. It seems like this weapon notch will be an interesting thing... but I can kinda see the problem of not wanting to have the player feel forced to "fight everything in sight", even though a weak push in that direction can make sense for a Drakkar.
I was thinking... if one choose to focus on a Camouflage-related non-combat path, the best thing to have this encouraged is to have those that follow that path being capable to survive the adventure with only one fight, or even none at all; if one is capable of avoiding any fight, he will not feel forced to have a very high CS, isn't it? However, forced boss fights can be problematic... but I can see them as possible by adding some items that can only be found by somebody with a mentality of avoiding fights (i.e, after avoiding combat for three or four time in a row) that can make the fights easier. Maybe a section saying "if you have not fight any enemy in this adventure" or "if your last fight was in Gorn Cove" that push you to something that, Dagger of Vashna-like in LW 9, will make it easier the boss fight... things like this, so as to appeal also to stealth player.
Any way, I wish you the best of luck with this project; I'm really curious to read what you can come out with!
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Post by askhati on Jun 7, 2010 12:10:35 GMT
Well, avoiding fights might be seen as either strategic playing - or cowardice. In order to avoid the latter, one would preferably force the player through one or two fights, even if they are not very difficult. However, if he had been choosing to kill many other opponents earlier on, he should have enough looted gear to make the one or two forced fights survivable.
However, as the player character is a Rekenarim and not a line soldier, there are certain situations where stealth is preferable. Notable points would be sneaking into camps and past guards - you can attack the guards if you want to, but the repercussions for that usually involve ducking masses of arrows while running for the hills, or being trampled by horsemen. A stealthy player may also be able to sneak up to someone and kill them instantly, which then gives you 'free' loot compared to someone who chooses to attack their opponent directly.
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Post by Zero on Jun 7, 2010 13:12:41 GMT
This I like. It seems to follow the spirit of these guys to the letter while still rewarding tactics. I like to think even the Drakkar would question the judgment of someone who picked a fight with a couple hundred men for the benefit of adding a few marks on his belt. With that caveat in play, the system seems a lot more smooth.
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