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Post by kolinovic on Aug 17, 2011 14:42:32 GMT
Was wondering there who was more powerful between Vonotar and Cadak. Obviously Cadak's longer lifespan has given him more opportunity to come up with cunning tricks (Exterminus etc.), but Vonotar seemed to think his plans through a bit more thoroughly.
I reckon it would depend on where the fight took place - if neither of them had "home advantage" I'd fancy Vonotar, just.
What do you guys reckon?
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Post by askhati on Aug 17, 2011 15:22:28 GMT
Vonator, purely because he managed to hoodwink the Darklords into supporting him.
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Post by primefalcon on Aug 18, 2011 7:25:11 GMT
Easily Vonotar, he had the combined magic of left and right hand, creating a whole new level of uber magic.
Even in book 14 the elder magi's greatest fear even over the loss of banedon was the nadziranim gaining the power of of left hand magic....., and by this stage they obviously knew about cadak....
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Post by ramthelinefeed on Aug 19, 2011 18:13:33 GMT
Cadak, cos he had a hotline to Naar, whereas Vonator was just a blundering misguided freelancer
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Post by kamikaze1900666 on Aug 19, 2011 21:21:34 GMT
I think they're about the same on these levels- | Cadak | Vonotar | | Army of Druids, former Darklord legions | Army of Goons, Ice Barbarians, and other-worldly creatures | | Vile experiments as minions | Ditto | | Ruled two kingdoms | Ditto | | Had Deathstaff | Coupled Power Ring with Lorestone | | Almost summoned creature from Dark Realm and resurrected Vashna | Had control of an undead abomination from forgotten lore | | Main baddie in 3 books | Ditto | | Had access to vile magics from forgotten centuries | Melded the Dark and Light arts into a corrupted form | | Kidnapped a guildmaster of the Silver Star | Ditto, plus killing another | | Cadak | Vonotar |
Pluses for Cadak- Higher CS, hotline to Naar, plague, religious leader Minuses for Cadak- got impatient and tried direct approach, needed the help of deities and demons Pluses for Vonotar- Extreme patience with his plans, was more of a puppetmaster and seldom dirtied his hands, successfully fended off several assassination attempts, ruled a kingdom on a plane where deities reside, more cunning and manipulative (seriously, overthrew the Bulmarac with only a few dissidents needing mind control, even though some were being dissected for experiments, and convinced villains who had been cast into the shadowgate long before him, and who were arguably more powerful than him, to follow his lead- all without needing a pre-existing cult to give divine edicts?) Minuses for Vonotar- Pathetic CS to the point he needed other items to boost it to stand a chance One-on-One- Cadak, hands down. A few quick spells and the old wizard would bite it. Army vs Army- Vonotar most definitely. He'd probably have conned the Chaos Master into doing his bidding by making it seem they had a similar agenda and the wizard would play it off like he was the subservient one. He'd probably lure the good nations to fight against Cadak's minions somehow too. Draw the druid thin, then send in his wild cards to smash the head- and he would be thousands of miles away, if not in another dimension, while the action was going down. |
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Post by johntfs on Aug 29, 2011 14:24:39 GMT
I'm not so sure about the CS advantage. It seems as though everything in the GM series received something like a +15 - +20 CS boost from where it would normally be. There's a drunk soldier in Book 18 with a CS of 34, for Kai's sake. Figure if Vonotar somehow came back in the GM series, he'd probably have a CS around 50 or so.
Besides, even in direct combat, Cadak's MO seems to be "send my "undefeatable" beastie at the enemy and watch from the sideslines." Figure Vonotar would probably just mind control the beastie and send it back at Cadak.
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Post by bittermind on Aug 30, 2011 6:12:11 GMT
Vonotar raised a whole undead fleet. By himself he was a grave danger to Sommerlund. Cadak didn't manage anything so impressive.
Anyway, Cadak just kinda gets on my nerves...
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Post by kolinovic on Aug 30, 2011 14:32:59 GMT
Even aside from their powers, Vonotar always seemed to be a highly intelligent enemy, whose cunning was matched only by his malice.
Cadak would have fitted in as a baddie in the 1960s Batman tv series.
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Post by kamikaze1900666 on Aug 30, 2011 20:58:46 GMT
I'm not so sure about the CS advantage. It seems as though everything in the GM series received something like a +15 - +20 CS boost from where it would normally be. There's a drunk soldier in Book 18 with a CS of 34, for Kai's sake. Figure if Vonotar somehow came back in the GM series, he'd probably have a CS around 50 or so. Besides, even in direct combat, Cadak's MO seems to be "send my "undefeatable" beastie at the enemy and watch from the sideslines." Figure Vonotar would probably just mind control the beastie and send it back at Cadak. It was stated in Lone Wolf Club Newsletter 6 that Vonotar's stats were: CS 14 EP 23. With the power ring in Book 11 it was CS 30 EP 21. Assuming this was him at his best (best CS boosting spell cast, as he did have time to prepare), add a Deathstaff-level weapon and it would be 40 CS and downing some Adgana would bring it to 46 CS. Adding a +20 GM bonus would bring his CS to 66. Book 16 Cadak's stats: CS 50 EP 35. This is without the +10 CS Deathstaff. Though invisibility was probably his best spell for hand-to-hand, we can assume he didn't take CS boosting herbs, since he probably wanted to be clear-headed for the ritual. Adding both the Deathstaff and a dose of Adgana would bring his CS to 66. One has to take into account that this is without a Power Ring or the like boosting him further. They could fight on equal ground, it just takes a bit more for Vonatar to get there than Cadak. |
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Post by bittermind on Sept 3, 2011 19:37:09 GMT
Vonotar got style, man. He whup that sissy dude with the white hair like he be going out of fashion.
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bleh
Kai Lord
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Post by bleh on Sept 9, 2011 16:43:15 GMT
Vonotar, obviously
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Post by Wolfus on Oct 20, 2011 9:08:02 GMT
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Post by kolinovic on Oct 21, 2011 13:42:58 GMT
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kai
Kai Lord
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Post by kai on Jan 20, 2019 12:35:17 GMT
This is a tough one. I figure Cadak would win because he has a higher cs and ep than vonotar. Also, Cadak almost raised Vashna. In an army vs. army combat, vonotar would still lose because cadak doesn't usually cower and hide.
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