thog
Kai Lord
Posts: 9
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Post by thog on Apr 19, 2014 17:23:07 GMT
Who do you find to be the most formidable LW baddie? On paper, Kekataag takes it. Honourable (or should I say dishonourable) mentions go to Tagazin, Kimah, Chaos-Master, Shamath and Zantaz. I guess Tzor is just about unbeatable and as to Agarash and Vashna, who knows?
1) Zagarna
2) Haakon
3) Gnaag
4) Ixiataaga
5) Kekataag
6) Zorkaan
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Post by ramthelinefeed on Apr 20, 2014 13:25:45 GMT
Zagarna's mystique is rather undermined for me by the Legends of Lone Wolf novels, where John Grant portrays him as a total buffoon!
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Post by Ramidel on Apr 24, 2014 7:30:35 GMT
Naar, obviously.
That aside, in terms of power it's probably Agarash or Shamath, since neither of them can ever be beaten if they get into Magnamund. Agarash isn't fought at all, and Shamash isn't fought at her full strength, because if she gets into Magnamund, she's completely impossible for Lone Wolf to beat.
Statswise, Vashna was stronger than Kekataag (2 CS down, but 30 EP more). Of course, he went down like Zagarna and Gnaag after being punked with the Sommerswerd. Plot device>Darklord.
In terms of effectiveness, Gnaag was the greatest threat to face Magnamund, outdoing Vashna's success quite a bit and managing to use full-strength Darklords against the Lastlands. Zagarna gets an honorable mention for knocking out the Kai, but he played way too aggressively and lost because of that.
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Post by johntfs on Jul 10, 2014 10:12:40 GMT
Ixiataaga is probably by far the most dangerous single book opponent - especially if you play the books strictly Rules As Written. Assuming you play as a Veteran with all possible accumulated items, maximum CS, Grand Weaponmastery and Kai-surge, you'll have a modified CS of 52 (24+15(items)+1(GW)+8(KS)+4(finishing 13-16)) vs 60, giving you a CR of -8. Assuming that you decided you can use Strength any time you want, that drops the ratio to -3. And you've been fighting Tagazin, Lavas and other crap before you get to Ixi.
That said, Gnaag has a multi-book presence and something of a personality, so I prefer him, even if possessing the S-Swerd makes your final confrontation with him somewhat anti-climatic.
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Post by laughingeagle on Aug 5, 2014 6:10:40 GMT
Well, if we mean most competent, than I would go with Gnaag so far. He was one of two villains who could get rid of Lone Wolf and he was the only one who nearly took over the world. So yeah, I was very sad about his short entrance in book 12 and that neither the duel or the SS-sequence weren't very interesting. And he was smart enough (for a LW-Villain) for you to buy that he could win because he was a clever guy and not because his powerlevel was higher than everyone else's.
That said, when I think about a real "fearsome" villain, Vashna comes to my mind. And I know, we never see him really interact with LW, but what happens when he is summoned, is what makes him so fearsome. Storms are gathering, his Acolythes are getting together, chanting dark songs about the destruction of Magnamund and everytime his reseruction ist near, everyone tells you that the world is really doomed, because of this one Darklord alone. They are not talking about him taking again over the Darklords, oh no, he doesn't need them, because he brings the army of the damned already with him! He seems to be more of an force of nature, than a classic LW-Villain and you have to ask yourself what chances the powers of Light actually have, when he will be awakened one day.
So yeah, Vashna takes the top for me even after I read how he really looked like ...
Hopefully Joe unleashes him finally in one of the last four books, when they are finally published.
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Post by Texan Kai on Aug 5, 2014 7:25:19 GMT
I'm ignoring the Legends interpretations of the villains entirely and excluding the Grey Star villains (as much as I like Shasarak as an antagonist). If you mean "formidable" in terms of the greatest threats to Sommerlund during Lone Wolf's lifetime, you'd have to consider Zagarna, Gnaag, Ixiataaga, and the Ceners at the top. Zagarna and Gnaag both crafted long-term plans and led war campaigns against Sommerlund. Both of them came within a knife's edge of total victory. Zagarna seems to have focused most of his efforts on a direct attack against Sommerlund (and would have succeeded too, were it not for that meddling Kai Lord and his laser sword!). While Zagarna failed, his efforts did ravage the countryside and cripple the Kai for a generation inasmuch as only one middling Kai Lord was available to thwart threats to Sommerlund, rather than the entire Order as a whole. Gnaag created his plans on a grander scale than did Zagarna and thought in terms of total conquest of not just Sommerlund, but Magnamund as a whole. To this aim, and unlike Zagarna, Gnaag was able to craft "alliances" with various human nations to side with the Darklords. So instead of Magnamund seeing another massive invasion of Sommerlund from across the Durncrags, it got the equivalent of World War II. And the Darklords nearly won. It's actually directly stated in Book 12, Entry 345 that Lone Wolf's failure "sealed the doom of Magnamund," which implies that Gnaag would eventually triumph over all resistance in the world. (Then again, the other "death" entries have no such statement, so it is possible that Joe was especially dramatic when writing that particular conclusion.) In addition to the war, Gnaag had put himself in a position to enact total control over his brother Darklords, something that none of the previous Archlords seem to have been able to do. I can imagine a scenario whereupon a triumphant Gnaag receives reports from the Darklords at the fronts that the war was finally won, that Sommerlund, Durenor, Dessi, and the other pesky mortal kingdoms were now little more than smoking wastelands. Gnaag then steeples his claw-fingers, laughs fiendishly, and... switches off the Transfusor. Within minutes he'd only have Taktaal and Kraagenskûl (had they not already perished) to deal with as major threats to his personal power, had he wished for such an outcome. Regardless, had Lone Wolf failed in Book 12, that was it for Sommerlund. No plan B. Game over. In the end we'd have Gnaag, First of His Name, Overlord of Magnamund, Archlord of the Darklands, Lord of Helgedad and Mozgôar, and Protector of the Realm. Or something like that. Moving on to the Grand Master villains: Ixiataaga and his undead legions had a great potential for major long-term, and perhaps permanent, damage to Sommerlund had Lone Wolf failed, and t he Ceners under Cadak apparently managed to create a plague that may have exterminated most life on Magnamund. That in of itself is noteworthy. However, by the time of the Grand Master series there was a cadre of Kai Masters and Magnakai available to take up the slack if Lone Wolf had perished. It is possible that they could have secured victory from the jaws of defeat in a world where Lone Wolf was killed in action.
Too long/didn't read version of the above: Gnaag is the most formidable villain in the Lone Wolf series.
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thog
Kai Lord
Posts: 9
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Post by thog on Aug 9, 2014 12:20:55 GMT
If you mean "formidable" in terms of the greatest threats to Sommerlund during Lone Wolf's lifetime, you'd have to consider Zagarna, Gnaag, Ixiataaga, and the Ceners at the top. I mean 'formidable' purely in terms of fighting prowess. No one has a higher CS than Kekataag and his EP total is impressive as hell too. The question is who were mightier, the rulers of the individual realms on the Plane of Darkness (Shamath, Avarvae, Nzapok, the Dragonlord, Zantaz, etc.) or the Darklords?
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Post by Mingan on Nov 15, 2014 18:20:31 GMT
It's interesting to note the connections between the ominous powers of the darklords. In the 2nd book, the most powerful enemies you face are the undead ones (that insta-death Helghast if you miss the magic spear...) and even after you retrieve the Sommerswerd, the battle with Zagarna's fleet is still overwhelming. In the 4th book, though you never actually face Vashna, all of those insta-death scenes reference how helpless you would be against an army of the damned (e.g. there's no option to just slice off that creepy skeletal hand when it opens the door you're trapped in). Ixiataaga deserves special mention as well, following in that unstoppable army of the damned theme. The 17th book was the first of the GM series I picked up (found it at a used book store, where I would usually look for LW books I didn't have before project aon was established), to my mistake. Nearly impossible to play with a fresh character and still difficult with an experienced one. I can only imagine what it'll be like when it comes out on Seventh Sense...
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Post by GhostofLandar on Jan 19, 2015 16:34:49 GMT
Two of the creepiest/scariest moments for me as a kid/young teen were Gnaag's face in the communication bowl at the Temple of the Flaming Sword (where the Helghast had taken over and corrupted what I assume to be an order devoted to Good), and confronting an actual Darklord in a confined space in Shadow on the Sand. That is not the first time you encounter a Darklord but it was frightening. Then you have Paido captured by the Darklords, and the fall into the Shadow Gate in Torgar. Everything that happens after Gnaag won the civil war makes him the most formidable.
Other frightening moments, though not archvillains: The Daemonak in Maaken (sort of what I imagined Agarash to look like on a miniature scale), The Helghast False Monk in Jungle of Horrors, the Ra...r...what was the name of that disembodied hand in Castle Death?, the mutant creatures of Vonotar in #3, the Death Hulk Fleet and undead Captain Kelman, the Helghast in Tarnalin (actually all of those encounters are frightening, Helghast are terrifying creatures when you first start these books)
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Feb 9, 2015 1:03:07 GMT
For sheer level of menace, being trapped in the vault with Haakon trumps any other encounter.
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kai
Kai Lord
Posts: 59
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Post by kai on Feb 2, 2019 20:52:19 GMT
Ok, I was checking out Gnaag's stats, and what came up was . . . weak. So from what I looked up, gnaag's sword gives him a total of +12 cs and a shield that gives him +30 ep. That means at his weakest, he has a cs of 38, and an ep of 40. Since I'm assuming that vashna's base cs and ep scores were 58 and 88, with both the aegis of the archlord and the Dagger of vashna, the Final result would be: Darklord Vashna: cs 70, ep 118. The max stats lone wolf can have, not counting the +4 cs when in the plane of darkness is, cs 64, ep 70. That isn't counting any potions, but a fully-powered vashna with an undead army would be unstoppable.
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Post by GhostofLandar on May 23, 2019 16:01:30 GMT
I disagree that the Sommerswerd obliterating Gnaag is anti-climactic. Not everything needs to be a final boss fight, sometimes it's far more glorious to see the combined soul energy of the Sword forged on the Plane of Light and Lone Wolf just turn Gnaag to "sightless atoms." To know that at the end Gnaag felt real fear, right as he believed he was on his way to steamrolling the world.
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Post by kurz81 on May 23, 2019 20:14:55 GMT
Most difficult combats are (in order): Tagazin in lw10, Kimah in lw09, Helghast in lw02, Chaos Master in lw11. Here you would need top gear, alether, perfect disciplines setup and max cs/end stats. And then you can die in combat anyway... In gm books lw13-20 you will never have problems with cs if you reroll your stats at the beginning of lw13 and you keep all the special items. Zorkaan in lw25 is hard but only 3 rounds, no real threat at max cs/end stats. In the end Tagazin in lw10 is the only fight that is a real threat even with distilled alether potion +4cs.
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andyc
Kai Lord
Posts: 210
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Post by andyc on May 24, 2019 19:15:32 GMT
For me the Villains followed by Vonator in LW11 presented the most difficult personal threat of losing in the first 12 books.
Tagazin and Ixitaaga of LW17 were even more painful, despite saving my best potions for it.
I can't recall any particular standout threat to success in the New Order books up to and including LW28. Certainly not Sejanoz the wimp.
As to overall threat to the Realm: Gnaag clearly wins so far, as he has successfully organised the greatest all round misery. He even beats his boss Naar (so far), as the hapless Dark God keeps losing despite trying again and again; mainly with his minions ballsing up at the last moment. "I'll get you next time Lone Wolf!!!!"
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