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Post by bittermind on Nov 6, 2014 4:32:48 GMT
Good day! There's been discussion here already about this project, and I'm glad to be able to talk about it with such a dedicated community. We're coming by to ask your help in bringing Lone Wolf - The Board Game to life. The project page is here: Or: kck.st/1x6Eqd6A free print-and-play scenario is here: richardhetley.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/fight-for-fogwood.pdfwww.lonewolftheboardgame.com/images/the%20fight%20for%20fogwood.pdfThe downloadable beta rulebook is here (unedited; yes, we are working on the typos): richardhetley.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/lone-wolf-beta-sept-2014.pdf(Save to computer for best display.) The game is in part a showcase for the work of Gary Chalk, who has returned to Lone Wolf yet again to design and illustrate all its components. In fact, Gary first put together this wargame/board game back in the early days of the gamebooks, and now 30 years later it's playtested and ready to share. Today fans of classic fantasy can re-create the battles of the gamebooks and change the course of history. New gamers will be pleased by how quickly the game plays, with its multiple combat system where all the action can be resolved with a single roll. After helpful feedback from folks online, we've done our best to focus the page on the game's strengths and offer the highest value in the game set that we can, with 80 hand-drawn playing pieces and many other features. Longstanding gamebook fans can also take advantage of special opportunities to get some of Gary's original 1980's artwork, or to preorder Autumn Snow, the new official spin-off gamebook. Lone Wolf has always been an exciting action game, and we're thrilled Gary has given us this chance to bring the action beyond the page. We hope you'll take a moment to look, share the free downloads, and pledge if you can. Thanks for reading! Box cover Maps and figures Some of the pieces of the print-and-play demo (final game involves no folding . . . ) Characters from the world
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Post by sirknight on Nov 6, 2014 20:10:15 GMT
Thanks to bittermind for posting our material. I'm Richard S. Hetley, one of the people working on the Kickstarter project. I love Lone Wolf and I'm glad that Project Aon exists to keep the classic books alive. I grew up on those books, and they were responsible for my preferring to spell it "armour" despite a lack of nearby British ancestry.
I'm also glad that Lone Wolf in all its forms continues to grow to today, and it's fantastic to have the opportunity to work with Gary on yet another stage in its development. The board game appeals to older sensibilities, having started development in the 1980's and being made of completely hand-drawn playing pieces. I like to think it's downright beautiful, but also Gary has 40 years of experience in wargaming, and it's a pretty darn good game system.
I hope it's to your liking and that some of you will be able to pledge on the project page to support Gary's continued creative work. See you there!
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Post by greg on Nov 10, 2014 22:42:02 GMT
I've had a read through the rulebook and scenario. I'm not quite sure what the game is trying to be. The rules seem kind of over complicated and old-fashioned. In fact (to do a little name dropping) I played a wargame with Joe Dever when he ran battle days for fans that used exactly the system of adding up percentage changes and every 100% being an automatic hit.
Cross referencing range, armour, troop quality, different covers then dividing percentages and then adding them up seems massively complicated.
It seems like a wargame on a 2D board with 2D figures. It also looks like it doesn't expand beyond 2 sides.
All that said, the artwork looks really good and it is great to see another Lone Wolf kickstarter.
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Post by sirknight on Nov 11, 2014 22:41:07 GMT
Thanks for checking out the page. Going in order:
I'm not quite sure where the confusion over the game is, as you identify it pretty conclusively: as stated in the descriptions, this is a wargame on a board.
As such, yes, it has concepts like range and cover. I usually reference Warhammer 40,000 when talking about it. The distinction is, well, try this: you say it "seems massively overcomplicated." I say "look and see."
So you've played wargames before, right? Things with range and cover. Gary has done a fantastic job taking that domain of gameplay and reducing it to something that you can, quite literally, play off a single piece of paper.
Think back to how it feels to learn a new game. Once you know the basic structure you're following, everything's simpler. Okay, now look at the Play Sheets in the demo file. "So there are all these rules for cover and such . . . " is a familiar feeling, but thanks to Gary it stops right there and becomes "Oh, wait, there's my hit percentage on the chart."
Try an actual calculation. There's nothing complicated about "I have 5 troops that each have a 12% chance to hit"!
Then lastly you speak of expanding beyond two sides. Search for the words "stretch goals."
I hope you'll take another look; and if you'd ultimately rather play a different game, perhaps share it with someone else who might be interested. Thank you for coming by!
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Post by greg on Nov 12, 2014 18:47:03 GMT
Try an actual calculation. There's nothing complicated about "I have 5 troops that each have a 12% chance to hit"! If only it was that simple. A shooting example: "I have 5 troops, what is the enemies' armour? Ok 12%. My troops are veteran +2, what cover is scrub again, ok light -2, but the target has a shield -1, but he's mounted +2. So that is 12+2-2-1+2, er 13. But is's long range so divide by 3. Rounding down is 4. Times 5 equals 20." That isn't straight-forward. It might not be complicated maths, but it is too complicated for a hit roll, in my opinion. I like my wargames with miniatures, and my boardgames with multiple players. Sadly this isn't a game I want to play. I will definitely be pledging for the Lone Wolf figure though. I may still buy the game as a mad Lone Wolf collector!
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Post by sirknight on Nov 13, 2014 16:32:18 GMT
Okay, I understand. And I thank you for your interest in the miniature! I'd just like to post once more to express how we're thinking about it. Don't think I'm trying to argue against your interests, or expectations, or standards for a game; just to set out how we hope people WOULD enjoy the game. Alright? The thing is that this isn't how to use the system--certainly it's not what happened with the playtesters, who remarked on how fast the system is. First, you chose the most complicated example possible; second, that's not how people use math for their own understanding. It's more like this: "Okay, so, my troops are firing on enemies in such-and-such armor, so it's 12% to hit. Five troops in a unit, so that's 60%. Now I'm going to use 60% every time I fire on the enemies, except for long range when it's 30%. When they get in cover, I'll need one more calculation." (And ditch the "halving it" part if you don't even have ranged weapons.) Why is my example simpler? Because if the troops don't have anything like Veteran status, then the number never applies. If no troops have a shield, shields never apply. Similarly for the armor look-up. And, in both the demo and our sample campaign content, that's the case for almost everyone on the board. Just like any game, we try to give players the easiest experience to start . . . rather, the one that lets them see the system and learn it. Once people understand that the game system REALLY IS as simple as "60%, halve it (optionally), check one more calculation when in cover," an adjustment for (e.g.) Veteran status isn't that difficult because it's just part of the same system. This is why the game mechanics impress me: it's a "full detailed simulation of the game world" with all these numbers for armor and such, and then the actual play in each "simulation" is so clean.
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Post by greg on Nov 13, 2014 23:14:31 GMT
Thank you for taking time to explain.
And while I understand that Fogwood is a starter scenario, while only having a limited variety of troops, it still has several different levels of cover. I am experience enough a gamer to be looking beyond the basic rules, to see how a bigger more varied battle would work and can see it going along slowly with too many calculations, (especially when someone tries to multiply 13 x 7 in their head).
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Post by sirknight on Nov 14, 2014 2:16:16 GMT
Yes, that's about where it would be its slowest, I agree. The game can't get any simpler without having literally every end target be pre-calculated. So if you are looking for "I must roll 6 or less on 1d10," it's a qualitative shift up to "I must first do one multiplication, then I must roll 1d100." When you speak of "going along slowly," it's slowed down in that this extra step exists at all.
But saying there will be "too many calculations" implies it gets more complicated than "multiplying (once), halving (optionally)," and it doesn't. Fortunately, the case of 13 times 7 is again the hardest possible math, and by definition everything else is easier.
If people are alright with a system that has range and cover at all (and obviously I am, else I wouldn't have played Warhammer 40,000 either), then it's just the rhythm of the game and you have fun doing it.
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Post by greg on Nov 14, 2014 18:38:05 GMT
It is not that I am looking for a simple game - I just think the basic mechanics are that little bit to complex and the complexity should be in the variety of units and the tactics employed in the game.
Anyway, enough about the nitty gritty of the game. The art book looks really cool.
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Post by sirknight on Nov 15, 2014 7:45:54 GMT
I'm glad you feel that way about the artbook: it's particularly exciting being the first anyone's ever seen from Gary Chalk, and I'll be using that as a key point of interest when sharing updates on web forums.
For the mechanics, I'd argue that you can't have it both ways. "Complexity in the variety of units": yes, this game is a detailed simulation of the original game world. If you check out the example I posted in the FAQ section, there's the situation of a six-strong Giak force facing a four-strong Human force: it comes down to "strategy, cover, and all the other fun stuff you expect." And then you are free to rearm and re-stat with all the other content in the core set (plus whatever new monsters are added in expansions), which had been the very cause of complaints about complexity. So either this complexity is a good thing or a bad thing, but not both, unless there's some other explanation.
Since all this complexity is in there, AND it is covered in a single calculation during combat (which you may often reuse without recalculation), I call it both a fast and a detailed game.
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Post by sirknight on Dec 1, 2014 19:49:09 GMT
Hello, all. Lone Wolf - The Board Game is into its final week with over 2/3 of its funding goal. Now is the time we most need your help to bring this game to life! To try to explain to outsiders who don't know what's so interesting about one fantasy world out of many, I wrote an essay that's turned out popular: www.erfworld.com/blog/view/45115/gamebooks-or-why-are-you-playing-thatIt's more than just a board game on offer. We posted about Gary Chalk's artbook before (covering classics like the Redwall series), and we're also offering Autumn Snow, a new official gamebook spin-off of the original Lone Wolf gamebooks. As you know, there have been questions about female "Kai Lords": now Autumn Snow will burst onto the scene! (Edit: We've made a retraction here. The project will not include any board game content based on Autumn Snow, but will include her gamebook as stated.) But the opportunity will be gone after December 5, so please take a look, share your thoughts, share the project, and pledge if you can: Thank you yet again!
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Post by sirknight on Dec 5, 2014 22:22:52 GMT
. . . And DONE! We've finished the campaign for Lone Wolf - The Board Game with full funding and one unlocked stretch goal, all thanks to folks like you. Thank you very much for your ear, support, and/or patience as we spread the word about this campaign. Now we begin the work that your money makes possible. If you're coming across this thread for the first time, you may find more information on the official page: www.lonewolftheboardgame.comA proper website will be set up there once the game goes on general sale, which we hope to be no later than November 2015. Thanks for an exciting and successful month. Onward!
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Post by greg on Dec 6, 2014 10:21:45 GMT
Congratulations on reaching your goal.
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Post by sirknight on Dec 6, 2014 18:52:55 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by drunkenwolf on May 2, 2021 1:36:14 GMT
I find it odd the first learning scenario has much terrain, but does not address if terrain is meant to be moved though, around or ignored.Very bizarre. I.E. does my army have to move through and/or around the stone structure, or ignore it entirely? Some clarity would be nice.
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