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Post by darkless on Aug 26, 2015 10:09:56 GMT
Recently after so many years i restarted the whole saga thanx to Project Aon (youy're great guys, really) and im gonna do it in a full legit-way (last time i did it i was like 12 and i admit i cheated a bit here and there). While reading Fire on the Water (project Aon Version, not the extended one) i got a doubt: At the beginning of the adventure i picked up a Shield (+2 CS) in the royal armory in the equipment section. When you fall aboard of the ship you've been told to take off the chainmail coat (which i don't have) and that you lose every ordinary objects in you backpack and your weapons. But you keep all other special items. So, the question is, should i keep the shield or not ? Technically it's a special item that they didnt tell me to discard but actually it doesnt make much sense that you've been able to keep it while trying not to drown. I could maby assume it's a wooden shield but from the picture it really seems to be a metal one. Till now i've always discarded it but those 2 CS bonus would be really useful against the Helgast, which has always killed me until now (i have CS 17 and the spear is not my weapon specialization). Maby it's just bad luck with random numbers using the built-in action chart (gosh i got almost everytime two 1 during that fight which nearly kills me). I know i could just pick up animal kinship and avoid the fight but im pretty satisfed with my skills and i would love to complete the book with them.
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Post by jdubs1211 on Aug 27, 2015 1:44:00 GMT
I am pretty sure shields are always categorized as "special items" according to the rules. Maps, on the other hand, are much less consistent in how they are categorized.
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Post by outspaced on Aug 27, 2015 9:35:19 GMT
Going by the rules, Section 78 says that you discard your Chainmail Waistcoat (Special Item), and then the subsequent Section 337 says: So you do keep your Shield, even if this seems a little strange. Hope it helps!
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Post by darkless on Aug 27, 2015 12:21:43 GMT
Yeah, i know, by the rules no doubt you can keep it, just it sounds so weird. I'll assume that it's a wooden shield to make it bit more logical.
Thanx for the answers
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Post by askhati on Aug 31, 2015 14:57:54 GMT
First recorded instance of the now-famous Sommlending Surfing Wolf.
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koreth
Kai Lord
The Cener Druids rule all. Accept it.
Posts: 110
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Post by koreth on Sept 4, 2015 20:00:31 GMT
First recorded instance of the now-famous Sommlending Surfing Wolf. Hilarious.
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Post by daltxcoltsfan on Nov 22, 2015 14:55:37 GMT
Slightly off-topic, I remember from my childhood that if you don't have Animal Kinship or a sufficiently-high combat skill to beat the first helghast and take the magic spear you can't beat book 2 honestly. I also remember that the book punishes you for mercifully giving your magic spear to Rhygar if you don't have Animal Kinship. Did anyone find something recently that changes this?
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Post by Wise Eagle on Nov 22, 2015 17:41:17 GMT
Slightly off-topic, I remember from my childhood that if you don't have Animal Kinship or a sufficiently-high combat skill to beat the first helghast and take the magic spear you can't beat book 2 honestly. I also remember that the book punishes you for mercifully giving your magic spear to Rhygar if you don't have Animal Kinship. Did anyone find something recently that changes this? First fire on the water: You saved by either magic spear or animal kinship, you do die if you give away the magic spear. Reprints of fire on the water (including the latest): You must get the magic spear. animal kinship saves you if you give away the spear, but not if you never acquired it. 7th sense (project aon version): You saved by either magic spear or animal kinship, animal kinship does save you if you give the magic spear away. The first printed version was changed after fan feedback i believe. IMO the first edition probably the best version of them all.
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Post by ramthelinefeed on Apr 20, 2016 11:00:32 GMT
I also remember that the book punishes you for mercifully giving your magic spear to Rhygar Yes but the book also makes it clear that in that case, you'd be assuming the helghasts were behind you and had not reached the tunnel: Rhygar stays behind to hold them off and stop them entering the Tarnalin tunnel. This assumption on his part was fatally flawed: the helghast were already in the tunnel, waiting to ambush you! So it's not really punishing you for being "merciful", it's punishing you for underestimating the helghast's position.
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Post by Nym90 on Apr 20, 2016 22:29:06 GMT
I also remember that the book punishes you for mercifully giving your magic spear to Rhygar Yes but the book also makes it clear that in that case, you'd be assuming the helghasts were behind you and had not reached the tunnel: Rhygar stays behind to hold them off and stop them entering the Tarnalin tunnel. This assumption on his part was fatally flawed: the helghast were already in the tunnel, waiting to ambush you! So it's not really punishing you for being "merciful", it's punishing you for underestimating the helghast's position. Interesting interpretation. The part of this whole scenario that never made sense is why whether or not you get the opportunity to meet the Noodnics is dependent upon whether or not you have a Magic Spear and/or give it to Rhygar. Seems to me the best solution would have been to just give you the opportunity to hand it over if you wish within the text itself rather than as a choice, and then have LW always meet the Noodnics.
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Post by ramthelinefeed on Apr 24, 2016 15:07:08 GMT
It's a while since I played that book, but if I recall correctly, you can always meet the Noodnics, it's just that you can never talk to them and get their help unless (understandably) you have Animal Kinship. If you do pick this discipline, you need never fight a Helghast and acquire a Magic Spear in the first place. If you don't pick it (and maybe concentrate your skills on more combat-orientated disciplines), you may have a better chance of fighting the Helghast and winning, thus getting the Magic Spear.
I also am just going by the original edition of the text. I think a later edition of Fire on the Water changed the section choices and logic? In my view, the original text was always fine!
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Post by Nym90 on Apr 25, 2016 18:09:18 GMT
It's a while since I played that book, but if I recall correctly, you can always meet the Noodnics, it's just that you can never talk to them and get their help unless (understandably) you have Animal Kinship. If you do pick this discipline, you need never fight a Helghast and acquire a Magic Spear in the first place. If you don't pick it (and maybe concentrate your skills on more combat-orientated disciplines), you may have a better chance of fighting the Helghast and winning, thus getting the Magic Spear. I also am just going by the original edition of the text. I think a later edition of Fire on the Water changed the section choices and logic? In my view, the original text was always fine! No, it was possible to never meet them based on your choice of whether to give the spear away, unfortunately. If you end up at section 102, you can't meet the Noodnics; you can only meet them if you reach section 118. With that in mind, here's a summary of the various editions and changes made, as per the Errata section of Fire on the Water from this site: The original edition of this book reads: ‘If you wish to give him your Magic Spear, so that he can defend the tunnel entrance, turn to 102. If you do not possess a Magic Spear, or do not wish to give it to Rhygar, turn to 118.’ Later editions came out reversing these two choices (i.e. the first choice leads to Section 118, the second choice to Section 102). Both of these versions are very problematic to game flow and inspired a controversy among the members of Project Aon. The version that you see in our text is a mixed scenario intended to most closely match the author’s surmised original intention, even though it does not appear in either previously published version. If you wish to use either of the previously published versions, then refer to the appropriate choice as listed here. Discussion of the different versions follows: Original version: The choices appear to serve no other purpose other than punishing Lone Wolf with certain death for mercifully handing Rhygar the Spear. The fact that this version was revised and the path that Lone Wolf is given in the Legends of Lone Wolf series also both appear to refute the correctness of this version. Revised version: Under this version, it is impossible for Lone Wolf to succeed without taking the left path back at the beginning of the Durenor Forest (Section 150), ignoring the warning of the Szalls, and fighting the Helghast. This directly contradicts the statement in Kai Wisdom that a wise choice of Disciplines enables you to succeed regardless of your starting COMBAT SKILL and ENDURANCE scores. Project Aon version: Although never previously published, this scenario allows Lone Wolf to succeed despite giving the Magic Spear to Rhygar. In the new Project Aon version, the choices are now: If you wish to give him your Magic Spear so that he can defend the tunnel entrance, or if you do not possess a Magic Spear, turn to 118. If you possess a Magic Spear but do not wish to give it to Rhygar, turn to 102. So now you finally are guaranteed success either by having AK or a Magic Spear, and are only doomed to failure if you lack both when you enter the tunnel, whereas in the original edition you would die even if you had AK if you got the Spear and gave it away, whereas in the second version you would fail even if you had AK but never got the Spear.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Apr 30, 2016 10:36:00 GMT
So in the Project Aon version you have to give the Spear away if you want to use your AK? Bad day for the Munchkins who don't want to fight...
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Post by Nym90 on Apr 30, 2016 15:57:42 GMT
So in the Project Aon version you have to give the Spear away if you want to use your AK? Bad day for the Munchkins who don't want to fight... If you have a Magic Spear, and want to use it instead of Animal Kinship, then yes. Also, while it may be a "fight", you don't have to engage the Helghast in combat. And unlike taking the Noodnic path, you keep your money, so it seems the better option if you have both ways of surviving the tunnel available to you.
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Post by ramthelinefeed on May 10, 2016 17:13:35 GMT
Both of these versions are very problematic to game flow and inspired a controversy among the members of Project Aon. Well quite - lol, I was aligned with the faction who saw nothing wrong with their original first printing of Fire on the Water, and thought the whole "BOO HOO, NOT FAIR, I GAVE RHYGAR MY SPEAR AND I DIED" faction were deluded The summary above confuses me, though, as I did think (as I outlined above) it was possible to not have a magic spear (e.g. have heeded your skill of Camouflage to scarper when you find the Szalls gloating at the helghast with a magic spear in it) and meet the noodnics so long as you have Animal Kinship. It could be my memory is wrong, or my edition of Fire on the Water was the right one and everyone else had some messed up version
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