Problem with Magnakai to Grandmaster transfer

[malfi]

(I just deleted my first post somehow, *sigh*)

First all seventh sense is awesome, it has helped me introduce lone wolf to many of my friends. Many many thanks to its creator.

So I have an issue with picking a new cs and edurance in book 13. The only possible choice I have is 1 for cs and 1 for endurance.

My initial stats method is hardcore distribute 10 points, which I used to get cs 17 and endurance 13. My CS/End transfer "when moving from magnakai to grand master series" is "by the book".

I think I should be able to choose the numbers and I was planning for "5" and "5". But I ended up with only being allowed "1" and "1".

[UrQuan]

Tested this myself, and indeed it seems to be a bug. You already spent 10 points and that doesn't get reset when re-rolling stats. I'm sure you're the first guy ever with that combination of custom rules.
Regarding the GM re-rolling mechanic in general, it's less of a mess if you just carry over stats. You should effectively have 2 more CS than if you had kept your stats even in your case, but you also forfeited +1 healing per section (only available as a legacy bonus in Grand Master).

Anyway, there is no fix on your end. If you want this addressed you'll have to wait for Dave.

[malfi]

Thanks for the answer Urquan.
Yeah I wanted to play by the book rules mostly, but I didn't want to roll my stats.
The first time I went through the whole series (not counting the multiple times I played the physical 5 first books 20 years ago) I didn't use seventh sense and I simply carried my original stats, now I wanted to try out the alternate method.

[malfi]

On a slightly related note, I just noticed that deliverance doesn't give the 1 END point heal per section.
I searched the forums and found this thread
projectaon.proboards.com/thread/2419/seventh-sense-error-bug-reports?page=6
Where dave claims
"Yeah, in the book, it states you are constantly healed. So, in GM books, even if you don't have a loyalty bonus from Curing, you will be healed +1 EP each round without combat. The only scenario that this won't apply is in Hardcore, where the player would have to either have taken Deliverance, or get a loyalty bonus from Curing."

That seems to not be the case. I started a new campaign from book 13 and deliverance doesn't heal your END points.

Is this intended? Newer updates changed that? I actually can see why Deliverance wouldn't heal you 1 END point per section, I am just wondering if this intentional.

[UrQuan]

Jul 9, 2016 13:38:14 GMT malfi said:

On a slightly related note, I just noticed that deliverance doesn't give the 1 END point heal per section.
I searched the forums and found this thread
projectaon.proboards.com/thread/2419/seventh-sense-error-bug-reports?page=6
Where dave claims
"Yeah, in the book, it states you are constantly healed. So, in GM books, even if you don't have a loyalty bonus from Curing, you will be healed +1 EP each round without combat. The only scenario that this won't apply is in Hardcore, where the player would have to either have taken Deliverance, or get a loyalty bonus from Curing."

That seems to not be the case. I started a new campaign from book 13 and deliverance doesn't heal your END points.

Is this intended? Newer updates changed that? I actually can see why Deliverance wouldn't heal you 1 END point per section, I am just wondering if this intentional.

It was changed since then, according to one of the Newsletters that mention that issue. It makes some sense since that mechanic is never referenced in the Grand Master series.
Incidentally, not having healing does make the Grand Master series impossible, if starting fresh from book 13.

[malfi]

So I did some research on the subject (grand master game rules) and wow is this a discussed-to-the-death topic.

I actually read the "The game rules" part in book 13 and it seems to offer no indication that you automatically lose loyalty bonuses (apart from the Lore circles) if you decide to reroll your stats. In fact it actually seems pretty clear that you don't have to.

I think the "by the book option" in Seventh Sense of rerolling your stats should include the option to keep discipline loyalty bonues and/or items.

This means that "by the book" on one end you keep your stats as they are, which ends up being pretty harsh on the casual gamer, that doesn't know the books, doesn't have a stash of potions and roleplays his choices. But on the other end you basically gain a +10 cs -1 endurance which turns difficult combats into cake walks.

Personally I would get the +10 cs on my stats but dump kalgonite chain mail and the silver bracers. I think this would be closer to the casual immersive play experience I want to have.

As it stands i tried the book 13 and 14 without rerolling stats and managed to just barely scrape by without deaths. I used 2 lamspurs, 2 doses from the lamspur concetrated thingy, 2 doses of +2cs concetrated thingy (one needlessly on the huge rat thing, only to have banedon save me) and both of my +20 ep curing charges. Ironically I died in book 15 by the drakkarim pensioner in the cabin (again as I did the last time playing the series).

[UrQuan]

Jul 10, 2016 21:14:22 GMT malfi said:

So I did some research on the subject (grand master game rules) and wow is this a discussed-to-the-death topic.

I actually read the "The game rules" part in book 13 and it seems to offer no indication that you automatically lose loyalty bonuses (apart from the Lore circles) if you decide to reroll your stats. In fact it actually seems pretty clear that you don't have to.

I think the "by the book option" in Seventh Sense of rerolling your stats should include the option to keep discipline loyalty bonues and/or items.

This means that "by the book" on one end you keep your stats as they are, which ends up being pretty harsh on the casual gamer, that doesn't know the books, doesn't have a stash of potions and roleplays his choices. But on the other end you basically gain a +10 cs -1 endurance which turns difficult combats into cake walks.

Personally I would get the +10 cs on my stats but dump kalgonite chain mail and the silver bracers. I think this would be closer to the casual immersive play experience I want to have.

As it stands i tried the book 13 and 14 without rerolling stats and managed to just barely scrape by without deaths. I used 2 lamspurs, 2 doses from the lamspur concetrated thingy, 2 doses of +2cs concetrated thingy (one needlessly on the huge rat thing, only to have banedon save me) and both of my +20 ep curing charges. Ironically I died in book 15 by the drakkarim pensioner in the cabin (again as I did the last time playing the series).

Absolutely the text does not indicate that you lose anything really, but re-rolling while keeping any loyalty bonuses completely throws any semblance of balance out the window, as re-rolling is effectively just +15 CS!, or +10 CS without lore-circles. In either case, with maximum stats and all carry-over items, you are suddenly hard-pressed to find combats below +11 CR...

To avoid all of this head-ache and balance issues it should really be: Carry over everything, or start fresh from book 13. I would even guess that that is how it was intended. Now as I mentioned, starting fresh happens to make the Grand Master series impossible, so that only got rid of one half of the balance issues.


But I'm pretty sure re-rolling in By-the-Book already works exactly like you described, you can keep your items, so in effect it's +10 CS for the price of no Healing, like you mentioned.

[Rusty Radiator]

This is assuming you get the Kagonite Chainmail, which is quite difficult to pick up. In 4 or 5 play through a I have never got it! Also, there is no guarantee on the Silver Helm or even the bracers. Plus, you might only get 3 on your CS roll. So no, it is not +11 on every fight with 25+rnd+items, just as it is not in the NO books.

[UrQuan]

Jul 11, 2016 14:58:45 GMT Rusty Radiator said:

This is assuming you get the Kagonite Chainmail, which is quite difficult to pick up. In 4 or 5 play through a I have never got it! Also, there is no guarantee on the Silver Helm or even the bracers. Plus, you might only get 3 on your CS roll. So no, it is not +11 on every fight with 25+rnd+items, just as it is not in the NO books.

The Silver Helmet and Silver Bracers are not guaranteed only in the sense that you can go out of your way not to get them.
It's true, on By-the-Book you might roll badly (and nowadays in SS you are actually stuck with that roll). This problem persists however, for other game-modes / gameplay rules combinations.

[malfi]

Jul 10, 2016 23:46:09 GMT UrQuan said:

But I'm pretty sure re-rolling in By-the-Book already works exactly like you described, you can keep your items, so in effect it's +10 CS for the price of no Healing, like you mentioned.

Yes but rerolling By-the-Book shouldn't mean you automatically lose your discipline loyalty bonuses. I think it would be ideal for Seventh Sense to have the option to reroll and keep your discipline loyalty bonuses (and/or your items).

[Rusty Radiator]

Jul 11, 2016 18:53:05 GMT UrQuan said:

Jul 11, 2016 14:58:45 GMT Rusty Radiator said:

This is assuming you get the Kagonite Chainmail, which is quite difficult to pick up. In 4 or 5 play through a I have never got it! Also, there is no guarantee on the Silver Helm or even the bracers. Plus, you might only get 3 on your CS roll. So no, it is not +11 on every fight with 25+rnd+items, just as it is not in the NO books.

The Silver Helmet and Silver Bracers are not guaranteed only in the sense that you can go out of your way not to get them.
It's true, on By-the-Book you might roll badly (and nowadays in SS you are actually stuck with that roll). This problem persists however, for other game-modes / gameplay rules combinations.

Well for the Bracers you have to not have Curing, unlikely but you might experiment with different skill sets. But the Silver Helmet is perfectly easy to miss, depending on which route you take. Depends how many times you've played it I guess.