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Post by Rusty Radiator on Oct 7, 2019 22:09:59 GMT
Got to be Vonotar.
Remember, Magnamund was in a kind of Stalemate before 5050, with Zagarna's darklords locked in conflict with the First Order of the Kai and other helpers, for near enough a thousand years! Only one thing broke that equilibrium, that was Vonotar's betrayal. Once the original Kai and the Darklords were wiped out it allowed all the other players kept in their shadow for centuries some space to breath- with apocalyptic consequences! There is a new arms race now and it will reach its apotheosis with the return of the man who kicked it off- Vonotar, the visionary that first sought to reunite the Left and Right Hands of Magic, separate since the days of the Elder Magi fighting Agarash.
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Post by GhostofLandar on Oct 8, 2019 14:30:03 GMT
Rusty,
what did you think of the Killers of the Black Moon concept? Teakkro and (the other one whose name I can't remember) are two beings who are much older than they look, one has a Durenese accent. Then we have the Drakkarim Death Knight Black Moon Guards. They leave it up to our imagination that they date back to Vashna's death. I'm still uncertain about it, really. Like I have no issue with the Nengud-kor-Adez giving Vashna's spirit more power but some of these characters date back to when Vashna's spirit was seemingly an impotent spectre crying out from an ice-cold chasm. So we go from Barraka and some Acolytes to people who have disciplines that counter and fool and negate Kai GRAND DISCIPLINES. I don't know how I feel about that. I enjoyed the story immensely but we don't need power creep or things like "negation of" the powers given to Kai Lords by the God Kai himself. Now, I'm sure there is a solution to this and it's more "blinding/overloading" the senses than it is nullifying them. It just troubled me a bit because the Chasm of Doom, when you come down to it, is just a renegade noble with his own small army and a bunch of cultists. Then it turns out somehow that Vashna has granted powers or at least long life to a number of individuals. Perhaps through sacrifices to Naar, perhaps it happened slowly over time (long age first, then the anti-Kai disciplines) but I don't like having to justify it off-text.
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andyc
Kai Lord
Posts: 210
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Post by andyc on Oct 8, 2019 15:24:13 GMT
Wasn't some of these powerful enemies glowing with Naar's powers or something? I maybe remembering wrong, but I accepted it on the basis that Naar is going all out and imbuing his minions with dark power to combat the God Kai's powered Warriors. From a gameplay point of view, it will be quite interesting if they take it even further. Having to choose whether to rely on the Grand Mastery disciplines or not; or alternatively picking between different disciplines where one or more may result in a bad result, well that would make it less easy to steamroll if your GM is a veteran of all the New Order books.
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Post by GhostofLandar on Oct 9, 2019 3:24:48 GMT
I was under impression from reading the other night that it was Vashna who had introduced them. That doesn't mean it isn't ultimately Naar, just that I think the text is clear that these are more or less Disciples of Vashna who practice these countering disciplines. I guess without more information I can't say they "break" the setting, I just think any explanation has to be sort of precise. Perhaps more intriguing are the Drakkarim Black Moon guards, are they ancient? Are they restored? From my understanding is that even very powerful and evil humans can't live forever without strong practice of necromancy and possession of bodies (which may be how these Assassins actually operate?) Think to the Autarch and the various boons and power of his cult.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Oct 12, 2019 10:52:57 GMT
Rusty, what did you think of the Killers of the Black Moon concept? Teakkro and (the other one whose name I can't remember) are two beings who are much older than they look, one has a Durenese accent. Then we have the Drakkarim Death Knight Black Moon Guards. They leave it up to our imagination that they date back to Vashna's death. I'm still uncertain about it, really. Like I have no issue with the Nengud-kor-Adez giving Vashna's spirit more power but some of these characters date back to when Vashna's spirit was seemingly an impotent spectre crying out from an ice-cold chasm. So we go from Barraka and some Acolytes to people who have disciplines that counter and fool and negate Kai GRAND DISCIPLINES. I don't know how I feel about that. I enjoyed the story immensely but we don't need power creep or things like "negation of" the powers given to Kai Lords by the God Kai himself. Now, I'm sure there is a solution to this and it's more "blinding/overloading" the senses than it is nullifying them. It just troubled me a bit because the Chasm of Doom, when you come down to it, is just a renegade noble with his own small army and a bunch of cultists. Then it turns out somehow that Vashna has granted powers or at least long life to a number of individuals. Perhaps through sacrifices to Naar, perhaps it happened slowly over time (long age first, then the anti-Kai disciplines) but I don't like having to justify it off-text. I see no reason why they have to date back to the time of Vashna. Their assassinations are all relatively recent, I think they may be in contact with the spirit of Vashna and other dark entities and are linked to the Acolytes, but they seem a relatively new innovation, like the enhanced powers of the Nadziranim.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Oct 13, 2019 22:11:53 GMT
I also think that their reacting to the basic 10 kai disciplines (even in advanced form) shows the wisdom of Grandmasters adding more strings to their bow, with the six 'diversity' disciplines. That basically counters their counter and leaves Teakkro completely flummoxed. Though I'm betting she'll research a strategy for dealing with magical attack next time....
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Post by GhostofLandar on Oct 14, 2019 5:35:23 GMT
To go back into spoilers, anyone else excited by the prospect of Sinay and Serocca coming to Magnamund, perhaps bringing the Meledorians, Yoacor and Ookor with them? I have wondered at just how "End Times" the conclusion to Lone Wolf would get but from that one section, I really, really hope to see a battle for the ages. At one point, I assumed Agarash would be back, especially as all it seemed to take was for a very powerful sorcerer to have to trade places with him to bring him back into Aon. Perhaps it's too cliche or expected, but having to defeat multiple Demonlords and whatever was born in the Nengud-kor-Adez seems like the only way you can say, "yeah, Naar gave it his best, he was finally defeated."
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Post by GhostofLandar on Oct 27, 2019 2:58:31 GMT
One quick note, the Archdruid is called Paizar. That's also the exact same word that the Watchers yell in unison. A misprint (Paizar doesn't quite sound like most of the Chai language we see, either.)
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Post by GhostofLandar on Dec 11, 2019 2:48:26 GMT
Skimming through the Birthplace and it dawned on me that the "Chaos" dimension inside Emolyria is right from the Birthplace, although infused more with Chaos and the manifestations of the Pentad. Reminded me though how much I hated the Qinefer and everything she and Grant stood for, even when I liked some of the more post-modern touches of Dever's vision. Excellent way to reclaim some of these ideas (I even like the idea that Alyss is Aon's elemental, the residuum left from the interaction of Ishir/Kai and Naar's essences to balance out Naar's cheating.
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Post by Wild Horse on Mar 9, 2020 15:20:06 GMT
Wasn't some of these powerful enemies glowing with Naar's powers or something? I maybe remembering wrong, but I accepted it on the basis that Naar is going all out and imbuing his minions with dark power to combat the God Kai's powered Warriors. From a gameplay point of view, it will be quite interesting if they take it even further. Having to choose whether to rely on the Grand Mastery disciplines or not; or alternatively picking between different disciplines where one or more may result in a bad result, well that would make it less easy to steamroll if your GM is a veteran of all the New Order books. Hmm, I wonder, just wonder if this was a case of independent innovation. When writing the Lone Wolf ERPG years ago, partly inspired by my fellow member, Greg (a fellow Singaporean who role-played Stone Cold), I developed a character named Lamenta, who was the human bride of Vashna (when he had adopted human guise), who was resurrected in the year MS5071. I did create a little backstory for that, with snapshots of her past in Delden, her infatuation with the human Vashna, and her "final" fight during the Battle of Maakengorge. Interestingly enough, she was a considerable sword fighter of sorts, with expertise in using the whip, and she had learnt some fire magic spells from Vashna's Nadziranim. no, I am not trying to claim credit here, but this is just so very interesting. If any of the former LW ERPG players here can corroborate, that will be nice. :-)
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Post by firestone on Dec 16, 2020 17:14:53 GMT
Hey guys, help needed. I ...might have/not... spotted a mistake in Dead in the Deep, section 15. When visited by Serocca, she introduced the large warrior-like figure with her as Sinay. BUT in LW11: "‘Before his coming, the Plain of Guakor was ruled by a great warrior called Sinay, whose only fault, it was said, was a surfeit of pride. He loved me and wished for the union of our realms, but, alas, his love was unrequited; the joining of Guakor and Vhozada was not to be. To win my love and restore his injured pride, Sinay struck a bargain with the Chaos-master, for in keeping with the paradoxical nature of that god, he is obliged to indulge in the granting of wishes to those who would dare demand them of him. The Chaos-master wove a spell to enchant me and Sinay was granted his wish: I became enamoured of him. But the bargains of the Chaos-master are in keeping with his nature—they are cruel and fickle. Upon the hour of our wedding he appeared and demanded that Sinay pay for his wish by ceding him half his realm. He was refused, and in retribution he imprisoned me here in this tower and wrought upon Sinay such physical mutation that he fled Guakor and hid himself in shame.’
‘Do you know what became of him?’ you ask.
‘Yes,’ she replies, sadly. ‘He is the ruler of a new realm. He has regained his power but his body is forever a cruel reminder of his pact with the Chaos-master. He is the one who sent you to me—he is the Beholder of Yanis.’"
So Sinay is the Beholder, who is the crippled, big-headed creature we see in the illustrations.
Now while it's possible (as they both have black eyes), that the Sinay represented psychically there is either Sinay as he was, imagines himself to be, or wishes to be OR is in fact how Sinay IS now, eg Recovered, thanks to LW destroying the Chaos Master, there is a problem. Towards the end of passage 15 she THEN refers to the Beholder as if they were a separate being from her and Sinay: "The Beholder and Yoacor shall await him [LW]. He will understand."
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Post by kurz81 on Dec 16, 2020 17:32:52 GMT
My interpretation is that after the fall of chaos master, Sinay restored his form and Serocca was able to go outside of the castle, like a curse removed.
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Post by Black Cat on Dec 16, 2020 20:11:29 GMT
In fact, that is exactly what was explained in the Lone Wolf Newsletter #10 from April 1988 (page 169 of the super huge PDF document on Project Aon):
Yoacor is the name of Sinay/the Beholder race. So he and his troops shall await LW.
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Post by firestone on Dec 18, 2020 14:14:05 GMT
Yet at the end of the section in LW30 she refers to the Beholder in third person while Sinay is stood next to her. I mean, she ...could...be setting LW up for a big Sinay reveal: We asked your GM to tell you to look out for the Beholder, but, BEHOLD, Sinay is back in his old form!
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Post by firestone on Dec 18, 2020 14:55:43 GMT
Definite issue: while the text says a starting player gets 5 disciplines, the Action Chart has a dark line between 6 and 7, implying six are the starting level. Thankfully lines 7 onwards don't have the standard text of 'Extra if you've completed X no. of adventures etc'
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