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Post by Vonotar on Apr 15, 2005 13:03:33 GMT
I know everyone has their favourites, and some people like role-playing themes when selecting disciplines. But since we are talking about optimal choices for Book 6, I have to ask...
Mini-spoilers...
Why is Psi-screen a popular choice in Book 6? You can only use it in one place in the entire book, and this encounter is easily avoided! Any other Spirit discipline will give you better mileage in Book 6.
Assuming you want to go for Fire and Spirit by Book 9, this basically gives a choice of 3 from Huntmastery, Weaponmastery, Nexus, Psi-surge, and Divination for Book 6. Once you find a certain path through Books 6 and 7, you can leave Huntmastery until book 9. Weaponmastery helps you get the Silver Bow, so it all depends on what other bonuses you apply in the contest with Altan (Alether, Silver Helm, Mindblast/Psi-surge) as to whether you take this in Book 6
I would say that the optimal survival chance is given by the following:
Book 6: Divination, Psi-surge, Weaponmastery or Nexus Book 7: Psi-screen Book 8: Nexus or Weaponmastery Book 9: Huntmastery
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Post by Darkash on Apr 15, 2005 15:07:16 GMT
Vonotar: That is one of the best arguments I have seen recently. However, some questions. Why Divination in book 6? It really dosen't have any practical uses that I can remember. However, Divination is good for book 7, where I get it. Why do you want Psi-Screen in book 7; I can't remember any spot where it is needed to succeed. I save that for book 8, where it is very useful indeed.
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Post by Nathan P. Mahney on Apr 15, 2005 16:30:06 GMT
I always pick Divination, no matter what. It's pathological, and extends to Sixth Sense and Telegnosis (?) as well. I just can't bear the thought of not having my precious, precious spider - err - danger sense.
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Post by Peregrine on Apr 15, 2005 23:43:41 GMT
I'm like that with Sixth Sense, but not its descendants. Grand Huntmastery and Grand Pathsmanship and their antecedents, on the other hand... (yes, I first played Lone Wolf in the Grand Master series.) Bumping Psi-screen and Divination down one each allows you to pick up Huntmastery early -- you might not need it as a Discipline, but completing the Lore-circle of Fire is a very tangible bonus!
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Post by Ramidel on Apr 16, 2005 1:41:59 GMT
I just don't like being tempted to use Psi-surge in the first Magnakai book, I guess. Book 6 is a relatively combat-safe book with less dangerous combats and the Sommerswerd and Shield (let's pretend we're not using Dual Wielding here) and Mindblast provide all the power one really needs. Psi-surge causes unnecessary if minor ENDURANCE loss...I'm just that way I guess.
So, if going for Spirit by Book 9, I guess Nexus/Divination/Psi-Screen/Psi-surge, then Invisibility, then Pathsmanship, then Curing? (Silver Bracers, yum.)
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Post by North Star on Apr 16, 2005 17:52:31 GMT
I base my Disciplines on which I'd prefer to have in all occasions, not which ones are best in hindsight! NS.
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Post by Vonotar on Apr 18, 2005 14:25:02 GMT
Vonotar: That is one of the best arguments I have seen recently. However, some questions. Why Divination in book 6? It really dosen't have any practical uses that I can remember. However, Divination is good for book 7, where I get it. Why do you want Psi-Screen in book 7; I can't remember any spot where it is needed to succeed. I save that for book 8, where it is very useful indeed. Because Book 6 is quite easy, it's a good idea to think about what will be needed in Book 7, which is harder, with few safe places to restore EP. Spoilers: Disciplines which I find useful for Book 7 are: Divination, Psi-surge, Psi-screen. This obviously means that two of these must be chosen in Book 6. Since Psi-screen is no use in Book 6, I choose the other two. It is certainly true that neither Discipline gives enormous benefits in this book. In truth, it is rare for any discipline to yield more than a few EPs worth of benefit in Book 6 - it really is that easy.
Divination does at least give a few interesting bits of info, and can also remind you not to go somewhere dangerous, like the temple on Brass Street. Psi-surge gets you through the sewer door easily - not much help I agree, but frankly this is one of those books you can complete without any Magnakai disciplines at all.
Now for Book 7. It is possible to reach the maze without any EP loss, combat, random numbers, or even being asked for a meal (in fact I've only found one place where you are asked for a meal in the whole book, one more reason why Huntmastery isn't actually necessary). Just use Divination to reach the jetty safely, use Psi-surge on the bats, and wait to be captured.
Perhaps the most difficult area is Zahda's maze - this area is dangerous because your CS is lowered, and fights become more difficult. You can choose between meeting the Rahkos or the Invisible Whipmaster. I reckon the Rahkos is the easier path. Rather than fight the Rahkos hand-to-hand (and risk instant death if you don't have Huntmastery), you can instead engage it in psychic combat. Walk past the plinth, and use Psi-screen to defend against it's psychic attacks. Then use Psi-surge to destroy the hand, at the cost of 4EP.
The Oudagorg is an easy fight - just use Mindblast, and you can usually kill it in a single round. Use Divination to survive the RN when getting shot at by the throne-hall guard, and you are ready to collect your equipment and the Lorestone.
Once you've done Book 7, assuming you took Weaponmastery in Book 6 to help get the Silver Bow, you can now complete the Circle of the Spirit by taking Nexus in Book 8. Your CS will be 2 higher than if you went straight for the Circle of Fire in Book 6, and when facing the Heleghast you will have an extra +2CS bonus.
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Post by Vonotar on Apr 18, 2005 17:19:12 GMT
Bumping Psi-screen and Divination down one each allows you to pick up Huntmastery early -- you might not need it as a Discipline, but completing the Lore-circle of Fire is a very tangible bonus! This is true, and depending on what CS bonuses you allow in the archery contest, you might want it to give you a better chance of winning the Silver Bow. Other than that however, there are few combats in Books 6 and 7 which are likely to challenge you. Hence I'd prefer to get a +3 lore circle bonus in Book 8 than a +1 bonus in Book 6.
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Post by Vonotar on Apr 27, 2005 14:27:10 GMT
Matter of fact, I did get a chance to do so. You have a large point that is very well recieved. I have thought about it, and checked in the books, and an alternate choice of Psi-Surge, Divination, and Nexus, plus Psi-Screen in book 7, would not be a bad move. Let me explain my reasoning: There are five diciplines available by book 8. Of those, four must be those for the Lore-circle of Spirit. The fifth is almost certainly best suited for Weaponmastery. Originally, I got Weaponmastery in book 6, along with Nexus and Psi-Surge. Divination came next, followed by Psi-Screen. Weaponmastery makes for some good bow bonuses, as well as a plus in book 7 when you are seperated from the Sommerswerd. However, if Spirit is achieved in book 7, then you get a plus three bonus anyway. You need to have Psi-Surge and Psi-screen in book 7 for your route to work. Divination is a must for easy access to land in book 7, and avoiding a crossbow bolt later on. Nexus is not only good for avoiding END loss in book 6, but most importantly, it is a guaranteed way to get the Bronin Warhammer, which is my favorite "normal" weapon in the series. However, it is not necessary in my route. (Well, it is good to have in LoV if you don't bring the Sommerswerd.) So another alternate route would be Weaponmastery, Divination, and Psi-Surge, with Psi-Screen and Nexus following. Both of these routes would work, although I am leaing towards the Spirit in book 7 one, due to the added three END points. Thoughts? I fully agree with all the points you've made here. If I run the Magankai series on it's own, I'll often forget trying to get the Silver Bow, since I've got no bonuses from Alether or the Silver Helm. In that case, I'll go after the Bronin Warhammer, for which Nexus is certainly very useful. I actually went through Books 6 and 7 a couple of weeks ago, going for early completion of Spirit, and managed to get the bow without Weaponmastery, just using items from the Kai series. As you say, Spirit gives you +3CS, and +3EP too, so provided you can manage without Weaponmastery for Book 6, you're all set for Book 7. Yes, the maze is probably the hardest part of Book 7, thanks to your missing weapons. For that reason, it makes a lot more sense to pay attention to increasing your chances of survival here, rather than worrying about EP loss against the Undead Summonation (which can be easily restored afterwards with Healing). Of course, ditch Weaponmastery until Book 8 and you get the best of both worlds! For a long time, I used to take the invisible bridge route, simply because my version of Book 7 had a printing error and did not list stats for the Oudagorg. Thus I had to get the Silver Whistle to avoid the problem. Eventually I looked at similar worm-like creatures in the books and deduced it's CS and EP myself... Got the CS spot on, but overestimated the EP by about a factor of 2! Only when I found Project Aon did I fully realise that the Rahkos is the much easier route for psychic characters.
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Post by Darkash on Apr 27, 2005 19:03:52 GMT
Vonotar: I had the same problem in the edition of Book 7 I got from the library. I just kind of shrugged and kept going. Out of curosity, if you are running the Magnakai series as a standalone, what do I go for? Personally, I go for Weaponmastery, Nexus, and Curing. Weaponmastery is for the 18, 20, and 25 CS unavoidable battles. Nexus is to avoid that END loss, which is a lot worse if you don't have the Sommerswerd. Also, it guarantees you the Bronin Warhammer, which is the only CS-bonusing weapon you can pick up until book 12. Even +1 is a big help in some fights. Curing is pretty self-evident. Of course, I can't get Spirit in book 8. I have to go in without something. (Usually Divination), but the big fight in 8 is a lot easier without the Sommerswerd anyway. Of course, no Sommerswerd makes the last battle much more difficult in that book as well. (I allow myself 5 rounds, as not even Joe would only give you 4, even 5 is really too hard.) My route in 7 also changes, allowing me to get a Helmet and Shield, which can really help. Of course, Curing is pretty much necessary to go that route, and for some other things as well. What do you do if you try to run it as a standalone?
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Post by Ofecks on Apr 27, 2005 20:20:42 GMT
I allow myself 5 rounds, as not even Joe would only give you 4, even 5 is really too hard. I managed to win this battle in 4 rounds. Thing is, you absolutely have to max out your CS to even stand a chance. That means the only way you'll have a shot at making it is if you choose the following: Weaponmastery Psi-Surge Nexus - Divination - Psi-Screen If you dual-wield, I'd replace Divination with Curing and move some things around. Curing makes book 7 a lot easier. Last time I did the Magnakai as a stand-alone, I didn't dual-wield. I still beat book 8, though!
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Post by Vonotar on Apr 28, 2005 10:51:57 GMT
Vonotar: I had the same problem in the edition of Book 7 I got from the library. I just kind of shrugged and kept going. Out of curosity, if you are running the Magnakai series as a standalone, what do I go for? Personally, I go for Weaponmastery, Nexus, and Curing. Weaponmastery is for the 18, 20, and 25 CS unavoidable battles. Nexus is to avoid that END loss, which is a lot worse if you don't have the Sommerswerd. Also, it guarantees you the Bronin Warhammer, which is the only CS-bonusing weapon you can pick up until book 12. Even +1 is a big help in some fights. Curing is pretty self-evident. Of course, I can't get Spirit in book 8. I have to go in without something. (Usually Divination), but the big fight in 8 is a lot easier without the Sommerswerd anyway. Of course, no Sommerswerd makes the last battle much more difficult in that book as well. (I allow myself 5 rounds, as not even Joe would only give you 4, even 5 is really too hard.) My route in 7 also changes, allowing me to get a Helmet and Shield, which can really help. Of course, Curing is pretty much necessary to go that route, and for some other things as well. What do you do if you try to run it as a standalone? It's been a while, but I remember that I generally went with one of two options. One was the same Spirit+Weaponmastery path for Books 6-8, and the other was Fire+either Nexus or Psi-surge in Book 6, followed by the rest of Spirit by Book 9 (Divination, Psi-screen, Nexus/Psi-surge. I'm sure you know the various trade-offs here (Taunor Castle goodies, various Book 6 battles, Zahda's maze etc), and to tell you the truth, I haven't looked at this one in enough detail to give a definitive answer. I've tried picking Curing in Book 6, and while it certainly has benefits, I've decided that I would rather rely on in-depth knowledge of the books to get me through, since Discipline choices are so precious. The Taunor water certainly helps keep you on your feet until you get to Luyen. As far as book 7 goes, your optimal route should take you past the shield anyway. The helmet is an interesting point - this would certainly help in later books. If you have Divination, this fight should be your only loss of EP prior to the maze, so I'd be inclined to just try it without Curing, and focus instead on improving CS and survival chances in the maze. Without Curing you need Divination or Huntmastery to be sure of surviving the RN late on, but I always have one of these two. As an aside, you have to wonder why helmets and shields are so hard to come by. I mean, after fighting Vassagonian bandits at the Battle of Ruanon, going toe-to-toe with Stornland mercenaries and pirates, and seeing action at Tahou (and maybe Cetza too), why is Lone Wolf reduced to rumaging around ancient ruins and monster lairs to pick up these basic kinds of items? Edit: After thinking about it a bit more, I think you may have a good point about Curing. Handled correctly, it more or less removes the need for Divination in Book 7 (you don't need meals anyway, and several backpack items can be replaced en route). And it if it weren't for the Bronin warhammer, I'd say take Curing instead of Nexus in Book 6. As it is, you'd probably need to take Huntmastery as well. Of course, this does leave a big problem for the Vordak fight in Book 8. You seem to need CS 33 to have a really good chance of winning in 4 rounds, and I don't see how you can do this without Circle of the Spirit and Weaponmastery. So the choices suggested by OmegaFlareX actually seem pretty sound.
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Post by Dusk Fox on May 31, 2005 4:43:22 GMT
Animal Control is the dump discipline. Ain't it always the way? It just seems to be the least necessary of all of the disciplines (no matter which series you're reading).
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 17, 2005 14:54:57 GMT
I know this is an older thread, but for me the selection of Weaponmastery and Huntmastery are fairly mandatory, Lone Wolf is a fighter at heart, however Kai Lords can be tailored so well to fit any person's interpretation of how they see a Kai Lord (part ranger, part paladin, part sorcerer-sort of-) JD did an excellent job of varying the skills to make each one different, yet maintain the same flavour irespective of choices taken.
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Post by Dusk Fox on Jun 17, 2005 15:52:10 GMT
I usually choose Huntmastery just because it pulls my bacon out of the fire so often with random number rolls, plus I flat out hate carrying Meals. Weaponmastery is standard because I sort of enjoy slaughtering my enemies like a thresher through wheat.
As an aside, I find using the random number roller for the LWAC makes me invincible in fights. I know it's pretty much perfectly random (as opposed to using the RNC, or even rolling a 10-sided), but that little computerized program seems to love me and wants me to live.
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