deiseach
Kai Lord
Champion of the Sommerswerd
Posts: 170
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Post by deiseach on Apr 12, 2004 20:36:07 GMT
Anyone here have any insight into Joe Dever's thinking behind the fights which were just too difficult to be anything other than frustrating? I refer particularly to Zakhan Kimah in Book 9 and Deathlord Ixiataaga in Book 17. Was Joe getting off on the idea of people flinging the books against the wall (could be troublesome now that they're online) or was there a typo in the respective CS'?
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Post by Elix Nosferatu on Apr 13, 2004 2:18:17 GMT
The Chaos Master in...my memory is going... The Prisoners of Time was difficult if you hadn't gotten that special broadsword (and still was with it).
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Tim
Kai Lord
Posts: 28
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Post by Tim on Apr 13, 2004 4:46:10 GMT
I always remember being frustrated by the first fight with a Helghast in book 2 when you get the magic spear. Losing 2 EP a round and not being able to use Mindblast made for one tough battle (if you didn't have Mindshield at least). I guess this wouldn't have been so bad except for the typos near the end which made it impossible to complete the book unless you had the magic spear when you entered the tunnels to Durenor. Still, I guess it would be equally frustrating to not have Animal Kinship in the online editions.
After getting the Sommerswerd, I always felt the difficulty dropped off quite a bit. Adding 8-10 points to your CS put you at a serious advantage over starting the later books without it.
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Post by Relenoir on Apr 13, 2004 5:24:47 GMT
Yes, I have to agree...those can all be pretty tough. I was going to bring up the Chaos Master as well, but just got my logon password. Another one I just thought of now--regardless of the Sommerswerd--is the Zadragon of Zaaryx in book 9 if you (deliberately) don't investigate the pieces of metal that give you the page to turn to. I think it's almost as tough as Kimah, but more EP and not immune to Psi-Surge. I also dislike the fact that you are already outmatched by some of these enemies as it is, and then you take a few EP of damage before you enter combat with them. Ever "almost" defeat one of these guys but didn't because of the previous damage? Most of these combats listed are actually HARDER when you have the Sommerswerd. Of course, going through the Magnakai series without it is pretty tough too. Try defeating the Vordaks on that flying ship in Book 8 fast enough to keep it from blowing up without the Sommerswerd!
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Post by Ghost Bear on Apr 13, 2004 10:08:42 GMT
I always keep my distilled alether (from Caverns of Kalte) to deal with the Chaos Master, and even with the +4CS, he's tough.
I suppose that after introducing the Sommerswerd, Dever felt he had to make tougher bad guys to compensate for our huge +8CS bonus, not to mention an extra +4 with a shield and Silver Helm.
I couldn't comment on the difficulty of the rest of the books in the Magnakai series without the Sommerswerd - I'd never played the books as intended before Project Aon. I always found the pen & paper method way too inconvenient. But I'd imagine that The Jungle of Horrors would be particularly tough. That Helghast is damned nasty.
-GB
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Post by Elix Nosferatu on Apr 14, 2004 1:17:48 GMT
The special broadsword is not the Sommerswerd. With the Sommerswerd he still has a CS of 47. The Ironheart Broadsword takes him down to 40 and gives an extra +8CS to you during the fight (I forgot about this). Without one or the other you instantly die so he's still hard. I recall a special armor that can carry over into the Grand Master series: the Kagonite Chainmail. Just wondering if anyone knows where you get it.
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Post by Ofecks on Apr 14, 2004 5:50:14 GMT
These are what immediately comes to mind: Helgast #1 - book 2: Tough as nails. I usually pick Animal Kinship when I do book 2 so I don't have to bother with the stupid spear. Kalkoth - book 3 Section 66 sucks. I've lost countless Lone Wolves to their barbed tongues. Hammerfist the Armourer - book 5: My latest attempt at a first-time run through book 5 ended abruptly with this combat. Ironically, that was the first time I had ever been to that area, after dozens of reads through the book over the years. I stumbled upon it completely by accident, and got my a** handed to me. Zakhan Kimah - book 9: Thanks to the footnotes in the online editions, I now know of a way to bypass the Sommerswerd battle, even if you start the book with it. If you have the Psychic Ring, but not the Sommerswerd, it's much, much easier. I personally think throwing the Dagger of Vashna is too risky. Sommerswerd-only battles - book 10: - Battle of Cetza, Ziran & Baron Shinzar. Both have 40+ CS, high EP, and Ziran is immue to Psi-Surge. Boooo! - Demonlord Tagazin. Nasty little sucker. Has 45 combat skill, but the battle ends as soon as his EP drops to 20, thankfully. Book 11 - "The Gauntlet" Book 11 is just... wrong. I've never, ever been able to legitimately finish it without cheating, even with the Sommerswerd. The Chaos-master's CS is 47, so even with your CS completely maxed out as much as possible (45, by my calculations), you're still at a disadvantage, given his 68 EP. Even if you manage to win, you still might have to fight the Zhengha, then the Shadow Reavers, then the Sommlending Criminals, then you know who. Even with Curing and a backpack full of Laumspur, you'll need a crapload of lucky die rolls to come out alive. I'm not as familiar with the Grand Master series as I am with the Kai/Magnakai, so I can't think of anything specifically, but if my memory is correct, virtually ALL the GM battles are tough if your CS isn't beefed up. I recall a special armor that can carry over into the Grand Master series: the Kagonite Chainmail. Just wondering if anyone knows where you get it. Yes. Book 12, during the ironclad attack on your ship (not the blockade run). The path begins when you're asked to pick a random number, and add 1 for every discipline you have over the initial 3. The lower score (0-9 total) leads to the armor. Thus, if you've completed all the books up to this point you need to roll a 0-3 to get the lower score. The odds are against you, but there's still a decent chance you can get it. I always keep my distilled alether (from Caverns of Kalte) to deal with the Chaos Master, and even with the +4CS, he's tough. How? As far as I know, there's no way to keep your backpack and successfully finish book 7... unless you just skip the book. Yeah it is, but there's a way you can bypass all of Tharro (including the Helghast battle). Travel to the town by horse, but at the gate, don't show your pass. This means you can't get the Grey Crystal Ring, but skipping the Helghast battle is much better for you than a one-time-use +3 CS bonus, if you ask me.
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Post by Andrew Cree on Apr 14, 2004 17:23:48 GMT
Well, so far using the statkeeper program, I've won every battle up to book 12. Bear in mind that the combat table is biased in favour of the player and is not balanced (IIRC, -2CR is where you are roughly equal in terms.) Best battle I think is one of those at the start of book 12. Enemy has 100EP - I kill with 1 blow through SK/Extended results table. Yes - you leave it in storage until you want it
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Post by Ghost Bear on Apr 14, 2004 20:11:31 GMT
How? As far as I know, there's no way to keep your backpack and successfully finish book 7... unless you just skip the book. I leave it in safe keeping at the Monastery. I've never thought to not show my pass at the gates. I'll have to try it on my next playthrough (every time Project Aon releases a new book, I do another play through from book 1, just for fun.) -GB
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Post by Reynold on Apr 14, 2004 20:34:22 GMT
The Chaos Master in...my memory is going... The Prisoners of Time was difficult if you hadn't gotten that special broadsword (and still was with it). Mmm...better left sommerswerd at the safekeeping,if you ask me,starting in book9 up to 12. Well,although risky,zakhan is easy to beat using the dagger - save your game first with the statskeeper, so that you may try again should you fail. ;D It seems that sometimes engage in closed combat is easier without sommerswerd - why? This is because the plot will be harder if you have sommerswerd with you and vice versa. Take the battle with chaosmaster for example.Using sommerswerd,your fisrt blow is slightly miss - he is slightly wounded.So his CS is 57 Compared with ironheart broadsword,your first blow hit the target - he is badly wounded.Hence his CS is 47 only. Note that the broadsword contribute +8CS - the same amount contributed by sommerswerd. Anyway,zakhan and chaosmaster is the hardest enemy i've ever fought (I'm yet to fight with the deathlord).No wonder for chaosmaster as he is a god-like creature,or should i say,demigod,is it??
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Post by Ghost Bear on Apr 14, 2004 21:01:37 GMT
I can't bring myself to leave the Sommerswerd at home. I can't believe that Lone Wolf would leave his very best weapon back at the Kai Monastery and use a piddling little sword instead... But hey, if that works for you, then you're making your life easier in a lot of cases, so who am I to argue?
-GB
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Post by Reynold on Apr 14, 2004 22:01:20 GMT
;Dhmmm...not really I still need sommerswerd in GM series because only sommerswerd can deflect the power beam from cener druid. It's not i want to condemn the consequences of using sommerswerd,but the text in the plot gives the hard situation. You know,when i fight chaosmaster,i realised that the only way to survive is not to bring sommerswerd.Consider this text: 341You draw back your golden blade and take aim at the Chaos-master's heart. But the closeness of your goodly blade screams a warning at this evil god (this is the flaw)and quickly he turns to face you. You strike a blow which wounds his side but misses (the consequence)its vital target. With a roar of pain the Chaos-master drops his club and clasps his side. Pain swiftly becomes rage and, with a vengeful scream, he reaches out to crush you to death in his monstrous hands. Chaos-master (lightly wounded): COMBAT SKILL 47 ENDURANCE 68 This being is Immune to Mindblast (but not Psi-surge). If you possess the Lore-circle of the Spirit, add 2 points to your COMBAT SKILL for the duration of the fight. If you win the fight, turn to 47. Text copyright © 1987 Joe Dever. Illustrations copyright © 1987 Brian Williams. But if you have the ironheart broadsword: 204Swiftly you draw the broadsword over your head and take aim at the Chaos-master's heart, yet even as you make your lunge he catches sight of you and twists to avoid your thrust. The sharp blade opens a fearful gash in his side (bonus) but it misses its vital target. With a roar of agony the evil god staggers back, dropping his club as he clasps his side. Pain swiftly turns to a rage that fills him with a lust for vengeance and, with a hideous scream, he lunges at you with his gore-stained hands. Chaos-master (badly wounded): COMBAT SKILL 40 ENDURANCE 58 This being is immune to Mindblast (but not to Psi-surge). The Ironheart Broadsword is a magical weapon and adds 8 points to your COMBAT SKILL for the duration of the fight. If you win the combat, turn to 302. Text copyright © 1987 Joe Dever. Illustrations copyright © 1987 Brian Williams. Well,this text force you to a harder situation.It's not solely your fault. on the other hand,in the real games the misses and sharp blows depends on yourself,such as Final Fantasy,The Return of The King,Max Payne etc. I conclude that we need to bring sommerswerd depends on the situation.In some cases,sommerswerd may comes in handy.To cope yourself with the situation,you may need to play a book several times,but different paths,so that you can predict which path needs sommerswerd and which path doesn't.... Anyway,nice to meet you , all of you.
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Cry Havoc
Kai Lord
And let slip the cats of war!
Posts: 18
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Post by Cry Havoc on Apr 14, 2004 22:19:49 GMT
It's easy to look at it in retrospect and say not bringing the Sommerswerd would be easier. But if you haven't read a book yet and don't know what you'll face, then it's a risk either way. I just bring it along for the emotional value.
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Post by Reynold on Apr 14, 2004 22:25:42 GMT
It's easy to look at it in retrospect and say not bringing the Sommerswerd would be easier. But if you haven't read a book yet and don't know what you'll face, then it's a risk either way. I just bring it along for the emotional value. ;DI can't agree more....
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Post by Relenoir on Apr 15, 2004 2:51:08 GMT
I do the same thing, but justify it differently. Unlike most books in the Magnakai series, where we start in one place and end at another, in Castle Death, you start and finish in Elzian This makes it perfectly plausible for us to leave things like Alether, Oede, etc. behind for extra backpack space and come back for it later after we lose the backpack.
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