|
Post by insomniac on Feb 8, 2007 5:20:58 GMT
Still what you've accomplished so far has obviously taken a lot of effort and time, do you think you could find a way of getting it published? Thanks! I consider the internet a form of publication. It doesn't earn me any money but it does disseminate my work. Or should I say my POTENTIAL work (as Zipp pointed out). Anyway, I consider myself to be very good at thinking up plots and cool concepts. That's different from finishing a book. Now, I'm not the kind of person who starts things and just drops them, but I'm also not the kind of person who always finishes everything he starts. So no promises, but I expect to finish the prehistoric adventure. I'm confident about it, especially because the story and the rules are original.
|
|
|
Post by insomniac on Feb 8, 2007 5:30:40 GMT
That wasn't quite what I meant. There was typo in my post; I said "in" when I meant "is."
Here's the typo: "the boxer is a veteran and his opponent in an American fascist..."
That makes it look like I'm saying America is fascist in my fictional plot. What I meant is that America would still be democratic, but there would be a fascist movement in the United States and the hero's rival would be a prominent supporter of fascism.
Across the Atlantic, Europe would've gone entirely fascist after the Germans defeated the USSR. That is what emboldened the American fascists. Rather than a cold war against Communists, the world would be tense due to a cold war between America and the European Reich.
The hero's cultural identity wouldn't be obsolete, though the fascists would claim it is (just like the actual fascists of the 40s claimed they were the future and democracy was outdated). His victory over the fascist boxer would be a symbolic victory over fascism.
And of course, this would add a lot of combat opportunities, say when fascist thugs show up at the gym with tire irons, hoping to break your knee so you can't fight in the match, or when someone tosses a firebomb into your apartment - stuff like that.
|
|
|
Post by beowuuf on Feb 8, 2007 6:25:55 GMT
Unless we all want to band together and publish a book of rules. We've come up with so many systems between us... "So, it's agreed then, the character has 5.6 skill that are rolled without being random. Next, combat...." Writing a gamebook would be fun, we've done a 50 section one before at TotS without even trying!
|
|
|
Post by avarius on Feb 8, 2007 11:38:03 GMT
Ah, I admit that there was indeed, a misunderstanding on my part.
Interestingly though, boxing has been used as a blatant vehicle for that type of propaganda in the past. In 1938 Joe Louis took on the highly credible German challenger, Max Schmeling for the world heavyweight title. Hitler's Nazi regime was becoming an ominous threat to the western world, with his ideals of generating a "master race", so both boxers were pigeonholed (rather unfairly) as champions of a moral battle.
As the fight was to be staged on American soil, Hitler took steps to ensure Max Schmeling's loyalty. Publicly Schmeling was declared an "Aryan Superman" but behind the scenes Schmeling's family were to be detained in his absence and it was made very clear that, should he choose to defect whilst abroad they would all be sent to a concentration camp.
Joe Louis was being hailed as a "champion of democracy" by the American press, which is pretty ironic considering that his skin colour meant that he was regarded by the USA of the 30's to be a second-class citizen.
The stage was set for the most high profile bout in history and to make things even more intriguing, Schmeling was the only man to have ever beaten Louis. The fight itself turned out to be a virtual mis-match and the German visitor was pulverised into an emphatic and painful defeat within a single round.
P.S Insomniac, there's a novel I would recommend that may even assist you in writing your Prehistoric Adventure. Entitled Stonehenge by Bernard Cornwell. It is fictional but it does offer you a visceral account of the burdens, religion and politics of tribal existence(and it's also a damn good yarn).
|
|
|
Post by avarius on Feb 9, 2007 21:41:18 GMT
Well, I've started (done the intro) and it's much a harder undertaking than I gave it credit for. Full kudos to those who can whip up 50 entries just like that, I found myself umming and ahhing over every minor detail. Lost count of the number of times I reset to blank page. Might go through one of the Greystar books again to see how it's done properly before commencing, can remember them being a little bit darker and more obscure than most of the other LW titles.
Experimented with a few combat systems for the actual fighting and found that it's excruciatingly difficult to come up with anything remotely original. So am thinking of abolishing melee and restricting the interaction to decision making.
|
|
|
Post by insomniac on Feb 10, 2007 1:53:10 GMT
Well, I've started (done the intro) and it's much a harder undertaking than I gave it credit for. Full kudos to those who can whip up 50 entries just like that, I found myself umming and ahhing over every minor detail. Lost count of the number of times I reset to blank page. Might go through one of the Greystar books again to see how it's done properly before commencing, can remember them being a little bit darker and more obscure than most of the other LW titles. It's almost impossible to write interactive fiction without making an outline beforehand. Outline the plot first, then start writing. You also need to have most of the details (like character background, setting, important items, enemies) figured out before you start. So there will be combats, but you will use text options to conduct them (like Zipp's extended fights)? That's a good option but it requires many extra sections. Check out how "Way of the Tiger" handles combat. That system would work well for a boxing adventure.
|
|
|
Post by Zipp on Feb 10, 2007 20:18:13 GMT
Well, I've started (done the intro) and it's much a harder undertaking than I gave it credit for. Full kudos to those who can whip up 50 entries just like that, I found myself umming and ahhing over every minor detail. Lost count of the number of times I reset to blank page. Might go through one of the Greystar books again to see how it's done properly before commencing, can remember them being a little bit darker and more obscure than most of the other LW titles. It's near impossible to do a gamebook without first outlining it, as Insomniac has pointed out. I personally draw boxes with lines showing what sections they connect to. In the boxes I bang out a brief description of what's happening in the section, and also give the choices. Then later, when it goes to my computer, I flush those descriptions out into a rough draft. Then I go back again once every section's written and finalize the drafts, also checking to make sure there's no broken links and that connecting sections make sense when put together.
|
|
|
Post by insomniac on Feb 11, 2007 3:12:43 GMT
It's near impossible to do a gamebook without first outlining it, as Insomniac has pointed out. I personally draw boxes with lines showing what sections they connect to. In the boxes I bang out a brief description of what's happening in the section, and also give the choices. I'm going to start flowcharting sometime in the next few days. I already have a page-long outline of all major events and how they link together. So far I have 32 pages of plot outline, concepts, skills, combat system drafts (3 of them), and background info. I've written the mythology of the Dwahari (the hero's tribe) and I am very impressed with it. I've even figured out the kind of plants they eat, the implements and tools they have in their homes, and their economic system.
|
|
|
Post by avarius on Feb 12, 2007 15:15:40 GMT
In all honesty I'm not the brightest spark in the universe and all of this flowcharting stuff leaves me baffled. Is there any possibility of you posting a small excerpt of your scribing so I could get an overall feel of your world and your writing.
|
|
|
Post by avarius on Feb 12, 2007 16:16:24 GMT
I was in a bit of a rush earlier so I'd like to rephrase that.
Please may you post a sample of your gamebook, it would be received most gratefully if you were able to do so.
Gonna take a bit of timeout from the internet for a while, I'm turning into a cyberspace junkie!!
|
|
|
Post by insomniac on Feb 12, 2007 22:39:18 GMT
Your posts on this board are very well-written. I think you're being too modest. Flowcharting is just a diagram showing how different sections of the gamebook link together. If you don't make one you'll probably find it difficult to go back and change your book if you want to alter the plot later on. It's impossible to remember how several hundred non-sequential book sections connect together.
I may answer some questions about the gamebook world, depending on what the questions are, but I don't want to post my rough plot outlines directly because that would be a major spoiler.
|
|
|
Post by avarius on Feb 14, 2007 20:46:41 GMT
Also, the last thing you want is for anyone to start pillaging your material, for want of their own ideas.
Just a question if I may.
Is the prehistoric adventure set in Earth's past, or have you have you opted for another world so that you can maybe elaborate on fantasy elements?
If set on earth, it would be great to be able to participate in some sort of trial of manhood where failure as a hunter gatherer would result in you having to serve the tribe's shaman or witchdoctor (a common fate for those who didn't make it through initiation).
|
|
|
Post by insomniac on Feb 15, 2007 3:55:13 GMT
True, but what I'm most worried about is unconscious copying, which is when someone reads an idea and, without consciously trying to steal it, ends up incorporating something very similar to it in his own work because it's on his mind.
Certainly.
It is set in Earth's past. However, that setting is rather conducive to fantasy-like elements. There will be different races of men, though not elves or dwarves of course. I don't want to give away anything more about that but I'm sure you know (or can look up on the internet) other races of men that existed in prehistoric times.
And by "races" I don't mean Caucasian or Asian, etc., I mean different species.
There will also be "magic," though perhaps today we would call it something else. The earliest root of the word "magic" meant "ability"; so, for example, if someone was incredibly charismatic, that person's charisma would have been described as a mystical power of the individual. I plan to leave some things ambiguous; your character doesn't know the modern explanations for such phenomena and so they will be described as supernatural. The reader will be left to figure out what actually happened on his own, if he can deduce a scientific explanation from the text.
However, I am not going to make your character or his people seem ignorant or silly. They are going to be an advanced tribe for their time. There won't be a shaman casting magnesium powder into a fire to make his people ooh! and ah! or cower in fear at the sudden flash of light. It will be more sophisticated than that.
There will be something kind of like that, but your character will be a man roughly 25 years old and he will already have passed through whatever manhood initiation rite his people have. This sets the stage for him to become a chief. It would be unrealistic for a youngster who just became a man to end up chief of a powerful tribe like the Dwahari.
|
|
|
Post by Doomy on Feb 15, 2007 10:50:10 GMT
It would be unrealistic for a youngster who just became a man to end up chief of a powerful tribe like the Dwahari. That reminds me of the best ending to the first Sagard the Barbarian book where the tribe offer cheftainship to a mere 15-year-old just because he's killed a bunch of stuff.
|
|
|
Post by insomniac on Feb 15, 2007 21:50:34 GMT
Being chief of a stone-age tribe of hunter-gatherers requires experience and wisdom. You have to know which plants are edible and which are harmful, where animals gather to eat or drink, what kinds of edible insects and small animals are available, etc. The chief, who organizes these activities, must be experienced.
Also, groups of humans will often fall into a natural hierarchy based on age. It is difficult for older humans to be led by younger humans. Chiefs will be older because humans have an instinctual inclination to respect people who are older than them.
The average age of humans at that point in history was 19, by the way, though that figure is probably skewed downward by high levels of infant mortality.
A 25-year old wouldn't be an old man, but he would be in the prime of his life, 6 years older than the average, possessing plenty of experience but not so old that he can no longer hunt.
There are other, cultural factors that make you eligible to be a chieftain, but I won't go into that right now.
|
|