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Post by Swiftstar on Aug 29, 2004 18:20:16 GMT
Hello all,
I have a question that has been nagging me ever since Lone Wolf found the Moonstone in "The Curse of Naar". If Grey Star the Wizard returned the Moonstone to the Shianti in MS5057 (War of the Wizards), and they in turn gave it to Ishir in the Plane of Light, just how did it end up with Naar in the Plane of Darkness? And didn't the Shianti go back to the Plane of Light after Grey Star returned the Moonstone to them? How then were they still there when the new Grand MAster returns the Moonstone to them in "The Buccaneers of Shadaki"?
If anybody knows anything about this, please let me know!
Thanks,
Wajih
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andyr
Kai Lord
Posts: 122
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Post by andyr on Aug 30, 2004 4:28:57 GMT
I read War of the Wizards a long time ago, but it seems to me that at the end of the book the Shianti release the Moonstone into the Daziarn, where it would fly out of the reach of any evil necromancer... It would be after LW22 when the Moonstone is put forever in Ishir's hands, seeing that the Daziarn is not out of reach from Naar's minions...
I would need a more detailed timeline, but probably the events in LW11, with forces of Chaos rolling over the Daziarn like a juggernaut, what would stop it from being a "safe haven" for the Moonstone, and therefore its capture by Naar's agents little after (some time before LW13, probably Naar is already using it to gate in all kinds of nasties through deathgates). As for the Shianti returning... maybe some of them would choose to stay in Magnamund, especially because somebody should take care after the Isle of Lorn and stuff... But also it is possible that Greystar's never written 2nd quest affected these events.
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Post by Laguna Blade on May 2, 2005 9:31:24 GMT
Aaaa...so this is the thread I'm looking for after spending countless hours of my precious time, dammit! ;D I read War of the Wizards a long time ago, but it seems to me that at the end of the book the Shianti release the Moonstone into the Daziarn, where it would fly out of the reach of any evil necromancer... And what the hell were they doing that for? Just for fun?After Grey Star used every ounce of his energy to retrieve it? This is the same case as trading Sommerswerd with Seal of Hammerdal. What were those old days people thinking? They risked the only weapon that could slay Darklord of Helgedad?The Durenese are not Kai Lords. Sommerswerd should be in the hands of the Archlord of Kai Grand Masters, not a token of alliance between two kingdoms!!  Somebody, please tell me the reason..Zipp, Outspaced, Black Cat, Relenoir, Thomas...something does not fit..  |
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Post by Nathan P. Mahney on May 2, 2005 12:02:21 GMT
The Durenese just pulled the same trick with the Sommlending that everyone pulls on poor Altan - it's just like giving him your Ticket to Port Bax in trade for his horse!
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Post by Black Cat on May 2, 2005 18:20:54 GMT
Well, I'll wait until WotW is released at PA before making my own explanation on this. About the Sommerswerd trade...err...maybe the Sommlending were fooled by the Durenese?
Alin: "Hey, Ulnar, I want the Sommerswerd!"
Ulnar: "No way...unless that you give me something cooler in exchange!"
Alin: "Errrr...yeah! Here's the Seal of Hammerdal!"
Ulnar: "Oh, wow! And...what are its powers?"
Alin: "Errrr...I don't remember exactly, but wait! I have the written list somewhere...in...my...tent...I'll be back!"
(Alin leaves the room in a hurry, along with all his soldiers)
2 hours later
Prince: I think that he will not be back, father.
Ulnar: Shut up! He said that he WILL be back. I have his precious ring: he can't leave me such a magical thing just like that, so he WILL BE BACK! I'm not moving from here!
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Post by Zipp on May 2, 2005 18:58:01 GMT
Aaaa...so this is the thread I'm looking for after spending countless hours of my precious time, dammit! ;D And what the hell were they doing that for? Just for fun?After Grey Star used every ounce of his energy to retrieve it? This is the same case as trading Sommerswerd with Seal of Hammerdal. What were those old days people thinking? They risked the only weapon that could slay Darklord of Helgedad?The Durenese are not Kai Lords. Sommerswerd should be in the hands of the Archlord of Kai Grand Masters, not a token of alliance between two kingdoms!! Somebody, please tell me the reason..Zipp, Outspaced, Black Cat, Relenoir, Thomas...something does not fit.. Well, the Sommerswerd ended up being safer away from the Monastery, yah? I would say that the trade was either 1) made after the book of the magnakai was stolen, when they decided that maybe the Monastery wasn't the safest spot or 2) More likely, it was a political move made to show Durenor how much Sommerlund trusted in them. "Here, we'll give you our legendary sword in exchange for some crappy trinket, now just promise you'll come to our aid, kay?" Also, as the kai were religious in nature, it may have been thought that some sort of pilgrimage would be in order for one to acquire the sword. Finally, maybe the Dureneese themselves feared the power of the sword and decided to take it into their own kingdom to "divide the kai's power." It is true that often one fears their savoir's as much as they rely on them. |
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deiseach
Kai Lord
Champion of the Sommerswerd
Posts: 170
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Post by deiseach on May 3, 2005 19:23:00 GMT
Why does Gondor hand over the land that became Rohan to the unwashed barbarians from the north that saved them in the Battle of the Fields of Celebrant? Quite simply it is good diplomacy to give your ally goodies. The Sommerswerd also has the benefit of focusing minds in Hammerdal. No danger of forgetting about the shadow in the West with that big knife in the vicinity.
Curious that Joe decided to place the bad guys in the west, contra to the usual Tolkienesque fashion. Deliberate or am I trying to see counter-imperialism where it's not?
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Post by Relenoir on May 3, 2005 21:18:18 GMT
Yeah, usually the badguys are in the east, or the north.
I agree about the 'extreme trust' idea. The two countries had to swap two things of value, with the Sommlending giving up the greater of the two in exchange for the promise of an army later. And of course, it ended up safer in Durenor anyways, just like Zipp said above.
@bc: Cute story above!
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Post by Laguna Blade on May 4, 2005 2:06:22 GMT
Quite simply it is good diplomacy to give your ally goodies. The Sommerswerd also has the benefit of focusing minds in Hammerdal. No danger of forgetting about the shadow in the West with that big knife in the vicinity. But why Sommerswerd?As if there were nothing else to trade with. At least the magician of Toran could give enchanted sword that could be forged and duplicated (if they want so much of magical item  ). Sommerswerd could at least intensify the wielder's Divination (assumed to be the Arch Grand Master/Mistress ;D), so he/she could have known the upcoming terrible massacre. OK, if they wanted to trade Sommerswerd so badly, then why in the Lone Wolf's age (dunno what age, probably after the Age of Black Moon ), he/she (female Lone Wolf ;D) could keep Sommerswerd? Could Lone Wolf him/herself assures that Sommerswerd would be safe in his/her hand?Moreover, at least two other important treasures in the monastery: Lorestones and Book of Magnakai. If the agents of Naar want to destroy Kai, they could again repeat the massacre. The problem is to have a sound plan so that those items destroyed successfully, that's all! In addition to that, I for one, don't see any difference either Sommerswerd is used as token of alliance. Sommerlund always allies with Durenor, although Lone Wolf together with Sommerswerd (most of you agree that there's no way Lone Wolf will left his/her best sword ;D) dissappear for 8 years in Daziarn and probably no chance of being seen again (that is what magician of Toran perception of shadow gate, after all  ) Curious that Joe decided to place the bad guys in the west, contra to the usual Tolkienesque fashion. Deliberate or am I trying to see counter-imperialism where it's not? May be he wanted to avoid racism, that people from east and north are the bad guys (Hey!I'm from the east!Does that make me a bad guy?). Even so, the are thread of racism in Lone Wolf, of how he/she left Paido being held captive. ;D I won't be worry about that. |
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Post by Relenoir on May 4, 2005 3:25:17 GMT
Sure, there could have been other things to leave with the Durenese, and they could probably forged a powerful magic weapon, but then the gesture would not have been nearly so genuine. Although the Sommlending and Durenese remained on good terms through the ages, what if they hadn't? The Sommlending left a genuinely invaluable treasure in the hands of their closest ally at the time, but if things soured, the oath of trust in the keeping of such a sacred artifact would have been more likely to hold Durenor to their part of the bargain than some other magical trinket. Besides, it made for such a great storyline!  |
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deiseach
Kai Lord
Champion of the Sommerswerd
Posts: 170
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Post by deiseach on May 4, 2005 18:52:19 GMT
Sommerlund needed Durenor because Durenor had the Sommerswerd. Durenor needed Sommerlund because only a Kai Lord could wield the Sommerswerd. I always liked the schmaltzy nobility of the Durenese dropping everything to fight an enemy that wasn't on its borders (and probably regularly dispatched ambassadors to Hammerdal to tell them that they wouldn't be harmed if they stayed out of the fight . . . as if!) I was therefore always disappointed that LW never returned to Durenor  |
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Post by Laguna Blade on May 10, 2005 7:41:08 GMT
Sure, there could have been other things to leave with the Durenese, and they could probably forged a powerful magic weapon, but then the gesture would not have been nearly so genuine. Allright. If genuity is the question, what's at least Kai Lords alternative aside from Sommerswerd? I'm thinking this logically. Do they just fight Darklords and their minions with normal swords and shields? It's just like giving a non expert user of a weapon and left ourself undefended and vulnerable. The Kai Lords and Brotherhood of Crystal Star should think about alternative weapons to resist Darklords. They should be more pro active. Although they manage to prevent Darklords invasion since Sun Eagle, but look what happen when they are over confident and at the state of complacency. The Kai Lords almost wiped out, save our hero Lone Wolf. |
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Post by North Star on May 11, 2005 10:30:54 GMT
What do you think LW does when he finally reaches Supreme Master? Then again, Rimoah and Ardan don't make the new blade until Book 19 and no Kai can make them because it's a Supreme Master power and the GM Disciplines were first discovered by Lone Wof. NS. |
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Post by Ramidel on May 22, 2005 15:08:42 GMT
Allright. If genuity is the question, what's at least Kai Lords alternative aside from Sommerswerd? I'm thinking this logically. Do they just fight Darklords and their minions with normal swords and shields? Yes, actually. Magical weapons aren't all -that- common on Magnamund, and the Darklords are all presumed to be licking their wounds and doing nothing back in the Darklands after King Ulnar whacks Vashna. The Kai Lords' normal abilities are fine for serving as captains in the Sommlending Army or for doing Fed-Ex quests for King and Monastery, there's rarely any serious crises that the Kai Lords need magic weapons for until the Monastery is destroyed. After Gnaag falls, LW shows an unusual degree of sense and keeps the artifacts of the Kai where he can see them. |
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deiseach
Kai Lord
Champion of the Sommerswerd
Posts: 170
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Post by deiseach on May 23, 2005 21:17:17 GMT
I wonder to what extent prophecy plays a part in the placing of the Sommerswerd in Durenor. King Alin says when he presents LW with the opportunity to take it that 'It is foretold that only a true son of Sommerlund can release the powers that lie within its blade". Perhaps it was all part of a test designed to demonstrate that LW is the successor to Sun Eagle. This would also explain why LW keeps it when the dust has settled.
(Prophecy can be used to justify a multitude of evils in heroic fantasy ;D)
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). Sommerswerd could at least intensify the wielder's Divination (assumed to be the Arch Grand Master/Mistress ;D), so he/she could have known the upcoming terrible massacre.
) 
