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Post by Storm Dancer on May 23, 2004 10:08:58 GMT
I'm trying to remember how they work - I remember that after adventure one, the skills you learn get improvements - but considering you start as a mere Grand Master, you wouldn't be at the same level as Lone Wolf when he starts getting improvements until book 5! Does this mean that the New Order character got the same benefits Lone Wolf has at a lower rank (in which case, I can't help but wonder what dizzy heights he would be reaching in the last 3 ranks!), or that the New Order GM skills start out weaker than the first GM series skills, and the first 3 improvements just take them to the level they were in Plague Lords? Either way, something occured to me - I can't speak for everyone here, but personally by far the most irritating thing about Joe not finishing the New Order series was that we never got to see the final improvements on the new skills - I'm hoping Astrology and Herbmastery would get something pretty spectacular, since I remember they seemed pretty feeble in the books and in real terms (ie. if I was in the world, I still wouldn't know what to do with them!) - and Musicianship wasn't much better, though I kind of liked the idea. Elementalism was a nice skill, but from what I remember it seemed like a cross between Grand Nexus and Kai Alchemy, and didn't really get many uses of its own - so I'd hope that later improvements would distinguish the skills a bit more, too. Anyway, since it doesn't seem too pessimistic to assume the books aren't going to get written, and since this is probably the biggest collective of Lone Wolf fans on the planet, it occured to me that we could develop the boosts to the new skills by consensus on this board! Jebus, I'm a geek But anyway - 'sides giving a feeling of closure to everything, this would help out all the people who plan to develop their own Magnamund campaigns. Heh... I wonder if theres chance of some incredibly altruistic soul with the New Order series typing up the skill descriptions/improvements that do exist onto this forum, so we can work off them?
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Post by Relenoir on May 23, 2004 13:05:54 GMT
Well, actually, it's a lot like the GM series, because you start with four Disciplines. The major difference is, four GM Disciplines is considered Grand Master Senior, which used to be the rank for having mastered one GM Discipline. So basically, the names of the ranks haven't changed, only the number of Disciplines required to reach that rank! Right now, I only have a couple of the books, but am eagerly awaiting more in the mail very soon. ;D I will nudge Outspaced, the lucky gremlin that he is , and see what he can offer from the last book. . . OUTSPACED, OUTSPACED, WHEREFORE ART THOU OUTSPACED?
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Post by outspaced on May 23, 2004 15:23:05 GMT
I will nudge Outspaced, the lucky gremlin that he is , and see what he can offer from the last book. . . OUTSPACED, OUTSPACED, WHEREFORE ART THOU OUTSPACED? Bah! You're no sun of mine, Relenoir! Book 28 contains the following Improved Disciplines: Please remember that the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004. Oh, and best to mention that any typos in the preceding are (c) Outspaced 2004. Don't go stealing them, now . . . ;D
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Post by Storm Dancer on May 24, 2004 9:00:11 GMT
Hi Relenoir; I know the rough game structure - tho I didn't realise how privileged I was at the time, I've played a sizeable number of the New Order series at my (ex-)local library. What I was asking was whether the fact that a New Order Kai started with 4 disciplines 3 ranks lower than LW meant that those four disciplines were of a lower standard than LW's original four, or, by the logic of continual progression per level, whether it meant that for the last three levels the New Order Kai would be getting bonuses that LW never did! Judging by outspaced's post (does that guy ever sleep? Thanks man ;D), which describes the bonuses of a Lone Wolf Sun Thane level as being from book 28, the interpretation that the four skills at GM Senior level are weaker than the four at Grand Defender level... Which just makes me curious what the New Order skill descriptions, in their basic form were, and what the specific old-skill bonuses between GM Senior and Grand Defender were - and I still want to know what the new-skill bonuses are from book 22-27 Sooo, outspaced... how industrious are you feeling?
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Post by Ghost Bear on May 24, 2004 9:49:55 GMT
Well, it makes some sense that the New Order skills would be better than Lone Wolf's. After all, it's never stated that he's the most powerful Kai ever. In fact, if Flight From the Dark is anything to go by, he's not too disciplined, and ill-attentive at that point (and a good thing too!).
Even if you assume that Lone Wolf is the most powerful Kai ever, he's the first to reach the rank of Supreme Master, and he received many gifts from the god Kai. It's not a stretch to imagine that the ability to teach new and better skills to the Kai would be one of them.
It's also perfectly logical that Lone Wolf also benifits from these new teachings during the New Order series (though we never see him use them of course).
-GB
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Post by outspaced on May 24, 2004 10:17:53 GMT
Judging by outspaced's post (does that guy ever sleep? Thanks man ;D) Yeah, I've heard of sleep, just rumours, y'know . . . I don't know, people taking advantage of my good nature . . . I can't promise anything, so no ETA, but I'll try and get the rest posted sooner or later. Book 22 contains the following Improved Disciplines: Please remember that the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004.
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Post by outspaced on May 25, 2004 9:33:33 GMT
OK
Book 23 contains the following Improved Disciplines:
Please remember that the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004.
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Post by robertib on May 25, 2004 11:44:01 GMT
The New Order get the same bonuses as Lone Wolf did, at the same rank - they just get extras at lower levels.
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Post by outspaced on May 26, 2004 10:41:45 GMT
It's that time again, folks . . .
Book 24 contains the following Improved Disciplines:
Please remember that the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004.
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Post by outspaced on May 27, 2004 21:16:42 GMT
Apologies for the lateness . . . I was somewhat busy this morning (BST).
Book 25 contains the following Improved Disciplines:
Please remember that the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004.
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Post by The Wytch-King on May 27, 2004 21:33:30 GMT
HERBMASTERY Kai Grand Guardians who possess this Discipline are able to use their advanced knowledge of Herbmastery to produce explosive compounds from simple organic materials. The rank of "Kai Grand Guardian" is therefore also known as "MacGyver". The Wytch-King
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Post by Relenoir on May 28, 2004 1:33:46 GMT
*LOL* That's perfect! I love it!!! On a more serious note, as Outspaced has been excessively ambitious and kind enough (as usual to supply us with most of the improved Disciplines, that I'd pitch in with #26 to save him some loss of nerve-endings in his fingertips. Here goes:I can't offer anything from #27 (Mork calling Outspaced, come in Outspaced!) but I will copy his post and be sure to say: Please remember that the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004. P.S. Oh, by the way, any typos in the preceding are (c) Outspaced 2004, since it was he who encouraged me to do this in light of all his rampant typing!
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Post by outspaced on May 28, 2004 9:58:18 GMT
Nanoo nanoo, Relenoir. Thanks for the help on Book 26--thought I'd have to pull a double-shift to get it done this week! Book 27 (finally! Yay!) contains the following Improved Grand Master Disciplines: Please remember that the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004. As for all typos being mine--you better believe it, baby! ;D
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Post by Storm Dancer on May 29, 2004 7:36:17 GMT
Wow, awesome stuff! So, who wants to give the basic skill descriptions from the new order series? I assume they differ slightly from the original GM series if they're weaker to start with..? And then where do we go from there? Any suggestions for improvements to Bardsmanship, Herbmastery, Elementalism and Astrology up to the end? What happens when a New Order Kai reaches Kai Supreme Master - and then learns the final skill? What are the hinted at benefits to being a Kai Supreme Master (considering some of the nifty stuff you get from becoming a GM I imagine they'd be pretty tasty!)?
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Post by Peregrine on May 30, 2004 21:53:03 GMT
Here's the New Order Disciplines (taken from LW26) and the differences to Lone Wolf's originals (taken from LW17).
(Note that the EQUIPMENT section only lists a handful of weapons. The Action Chart includes the more familiar list of ten. Precisely what you do once you've learnt your tenth at the rank of Grand Crown is unclear. Master the crossbow perhaps?)
The dilemma of the reduced COMBAT SKILL ("doesn't he mean ENDURANCE?") is present in both cases.
It seems rather redundant to state "under the tutelage of Lone Wolf", doesn't it? If Rimoah taught the New Order as he taught Lone Wolf, I could understand that being pointed out, but otherwise, isn't Lone Wolf the presumed teacher for the New Order Grand Masters?
That's funny, Lone Wolf supposedly learnt Kai Weaponcraft (among other skills) as a reward from Kai upon becoming Supreme Master (New Order frontmatter, Kai Weapons).
The last four Disciplines are New Order only. This is the game-mechanics explanation for why a New Order Grand Master starts with four Disciplines, yet only the first rank. It doesn't really address New Order Grand Masters being more powerful than Lone Wolf (though I always felt that the new skills were fairly cheap additions that often duplicated some effects from one or more existing Disciplines). It also means a New Order Supreme Master, with 15 Disciplines, is missing one...
And on the same old technical note: the preceding information is (c) Joe Dever 1984-2004 and is actually beyond the Project Aon User License, and should be recognised and credited as (c) Joe Dever at all times. Lone Wolf is Trademark (TM) Joe Dever 1984-2004.
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