Best of the Grandmaster series?

[kolinovic]

Moving on to the Grandmaster series so, and to a substantially bigger poll...

For me, the Grandmaster series feels a bit like the Star Wars prequels did. It's great to have all the familiar characters back for more, but it's not quite the same as the first time around. The books are generally of a much more stand-alone nature, while the linkups between 1-12 were one of the big appeals to the LW series when I got into it. A lot of the enemies seemed to simply pop up to threaten LW, such as the dragons; it was disappointing to have another attempt to resurrect Vashna also. It negated the importance of Book 4, which I really didn't like.

Having said that, there are some great moments in the GM series, and some fun characters. I really like Prarg's grumbling nature; Ixiataaga was a great (though criminally underused imho) enemy; the race across Magnamund in DotD was epic; and of course wrapping the series up with a breakin to Dazganon was a fitting finale to LW's adventures.

My favourite of the GM series would be between books 15, 17 and 18, with the unique feel of The Darke Crusade probably edging it for me.

[huanchoo]

Once again, a hard choice. Few of the books appeal to me, though if I wanted to pick ones that I liked best it would be between Books 14, 16 & 18. I settled on Dawn of the Dragons in the end as it is a race against time across the continent of Magnamund & there is also a sense of urgency in your quest now. Of course, the presence of the majestic Dragons towards the end helped, as Dragons are always a huge player in any fantasy series.

[ramthelinefeed]

I have to confess, despite buying all these game books from the Lone Wolf Club Newsletter order form when they were first published, I've never actually played them all yet! Basically because I'd keep getting killed all the time lol So after spending weeks on an epic playthrough of Books 1-12, I'd usually just get clobbered by Shamath's riddle on something. And if I tried to play them standalone, I'd usually get killed in 5 minutes flat, no matter what 'Grand Master Wisdom' said about wise choice of disciplines.

My favourite of the ones I have played is easily The Plague Lords of Ruel - it was the only one that, for me, credibly presented a 'grand master scenario' which didn't just smack of 'Combat Skill inflation' - fighting beasts like Ruel Giganites and the like, I did find it plausible that they'd have such enormous stats. The whole book was very atmospheric and imaginative, with tons of grotesque new baddies and monsters.

The other Grand Master books I've played tend to stretch credibility a bit - they'd just be set in ordinary places like the Stornlands, but all the combat opponents would have these enormous stats (eg Combat Skill in 40s) which just didn't make sense when you look at what, say, a drakkar's stats from the Basic books would be.

I also felt the Grand Master disciplines were suffering from 'feature inflation' too - things that I should have bene able to do as a Kai Master suddenly didn't seem to work any more unless I had a bloated 'Grand Master' version.

Having said all this, I've recently been struggling to replay them and just finished Legacy of Vashna (although only by cheating at the riddle and number puzzles so I look forward to tackling some of the later ones soon.

[Zipp]

My favorite will always be Legacy of Vashna. I love the reference to Lone Wolf's childhood, I love that the mission starts simple and becomes hugely complicated, it's the introduction of Dever's version of Alyss, the signalling of the end of the series, the end of Cadak, and the visitation of a ghostly foe long since destroyed.

Incredible.

[ramthelinefeed]

Sorry but I think Legacy of Vashna pretty much sucks.

For a start, Shamath's unsolveable riddle is an inexcusable bug in the gameplay, forcing the player to cheat.

And I hold my hand up and say that I was never able to work out the number puzzles at the end either, and since they lead to insta-death if you get them both wrong, I basically had to cheat there too.

The gameplay of this book is really rather linear.... the trek up to the lake and the trying to blend in with the Acolytes is interesting the first time, but on repeated plays it's just dull as you trek through the same sections.

there's daft combat skill inflation (I mean Vadovarian bandits? Durncrag birds? With combat skills higher than a Darklord? come on!)

When Alyss appeared, it just seemed to me like a token cameo from the Legends novels.
I'm still not sure where Shamath is (i.e. what Plane? Did LW end up on the Plane of Darkness or in the Daziarn? Or some elemental plane?) but nothing really happens there apart from some unavoidable combats and that damned riddle.

To be honest I kinda got the impression it was a bit of a "filler" book when Dever was short of ideas.

[Zipp]

Sorry but I think you pretty much suck, David!

Nah, just kidding. Actually, I'm well aware of the fact that some fans consider Legacy of Vashna a low point in the series, but it was one of my first books in the series and it grabbed my imagination completely. Foggy towns where no one is a friend, ghosts riding through deserted villages, another plane where a demon taunts you, and assassins on your tail... these are the things I remember from Vashna.

The puzzle and insta-death sections don't bother me because you can't really beat Lone Wolf without cheating, anyway! Not considering Kimah, the Vordaks in the Jungle of Horror, and Chaos Master, not to mention that Minotaur in book 13. Plenty of examples prior to Vashna where you had to cheat. Also plenty of examples of inflation prior to this. If I recall, there's a maddened doomwolf in Kaag who is more powerful than Darklord Haakon.

[Honza]

Feb 18, 2011 3:06:18 GMT Zipp said:

Also plenty of examples of inflation prior to this. If I recall, there's a maddened doomwolf in Kaag who is more powerful than Darklord Haakon.

You're right, ask certain Temple Portal for CS inflation :-)

But to the point, for me, the best is Dawn of the Dragons. It has a variety of setting and enemies and is (partly) non-linear. In the second part you nearly go in the track of yourself from book 6. There are old friends, well-known places, and an old (dead) adversary. And the end is really epic.

P.S. And it is much much easier than book 17, surprisingly.

[kolinovic]

Zipp, my main disagreement about the quality of Book 16 are that the threat of Vashna returns, which I think the book should have been closed on in Book 4. If there was, I dunno, some buddy of Vashna's down in the Maakengorge, that would have helped, but I feel that Magnamund is large and varied enough that Dever could have avoided returning to the same opponent. It just felt a bit like that rant the woman in Misery goes on when she finishes the author's book

[ramthelinefeed]

Feb 18, 2011 3:06:18 GMT Zipp said:

The puzzle and insta-death sections don't bother me because you can't really beat Lone Wolf without cheating, anyway! Not considering Kimah, the Vordaks in the Jungle of Horror, and Chaos Master, not to mention that Minotaur in book 13. Plenty of examples prior to Vashna where you had to cheat. Also plenty of examples of inflation prior to this. If I recall, there's a maddened doomwolf in Kaag who is more powerful than Darklord Haakon.

Kimah never got me, cos the Lone Wolf Club Newsletter had a hint in it before Cauldron of Fear came out, saying "Bring the Dagger of Vashna with you on this one!" - so I just threw it at him and won!
It was always the Gnaag Helghast that got me in Jungle of Horrors, but you can avoid it by riding to Tharro not showing your pass to the guards at the gate and camping outside.
Book 11 is a pig, yeah - I usually leave the Sommerswerd at home and drink Alether from Ikaya to beat the Villians of Sommerlund.
Exterminus is pretty nasty too, but I think you can evade combat there?

[ramthelinefeed]

I am quite enjoying trying to play The Deathlord of Ixia at the moment, but I am *so* getting killed all the time, even with a combat skill of over 50!! Those Cabalah!! And a Chaos-Horde! ARGH!

[manslayer]

The curse of Naar for me:
it had an epic feel; some mini-boss battle.
Legacy of Vashna was a close second; I liked the atmosphere very much
I was disapointed by Wolf's bane; it seemed to have huge potential

[Zipp]

The biggest surprise of the series for me was that there were more books after book 20. "But I just slapped NAAR!" The new order books were fun (what little I played) because you explore new parts of Magnamund, but it was a little bit like eating a delicious cake and then being offered a cookie.

[beowuuf]

Yeah, I recall seeing like book 22 in a libnrary bookshelf years later, and going 'WHAT???'
Didn't get it out in the end, sicne it wasn't LW I had an odd reluctance to get it. Odd, I know.

Then again, I recall suddenly seeing Book 13 in a bookstore when it first came out and being like 'WHAAAAAAAAAAT???' and having to grab it immediately.

Then again, I recall seeing book 2 in like my local papershop one evening, and being 'woah, that's the LW book I read in primary!' I of course grabbed it, and that was the start of me checking out bookstores and realising the whole series to book 12 was available (I'd only seen up to book 6, missed 3 and 4). Ah, great days. Still don't recall why I bought book 12 first, unless it was the only one available at the time. Maybe I justebd to skip to the end

It's funny to hear people complain about how hard the GM series is. For I only played through them once properly each (some of them I've played without combat idly) and back then I'd stacked all my bonuses. It's amazing how much better it is when you have the +2 WS, +4WM and +5GWM bonuses stacked together! Ok, ok, it's +6 better

[ramthelinefeed]

I beginning to suspect that the key to the GM series is to get all those herb jars in Morgaruith - there's enough conc. Alether in there to help you through most of the worst combats in later books....

[Zipp]

I beat the GM series easily. I just rolled all 9's and 0's.