simkn
Kai Lord
Posts: 111
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Post by simkn on Apr 21, 2011 22:25:52 GMT
For all you fan fiction writers out there...
I've been in the gamebook writing hobby for some time now and I thought this might be a good place to ask a question that I've wondered for a long time...
Is there a good tool out there for keeping track of your gamebook sections with all of the branching plots?
Back in the stone ages I invented my own cryptic pencil and paper technique for doing it. In this computer age I figure there must be something better. Lately I've been using MS Powerpoint's flowcharting tools. These are nice because I can attach arrows to boxes so that when I drag the boxes around the arrows will follow.
However I find Powerpoint still leaves a lot to be desired. For one, you cannot put labels on the arrows that indicate, for instance, this branch is where they go if they have Sixth Sense, this one is where they go if they roll 0-5, etc. Furthermore, and perhaps worst of all, as the game expands and the plot branches multiply, the arrows end up criss-crossing in every which way, and without a lot of manual maintenance the flowchart starts to look like someone spilled uncooked spaghetti all over my screen. If I decide to introduce a new thread I spend a lot of time rearranging flowchart boxes to make room for new boxes, and then rearranging the arrows so that I can make heads or tails of it all.
My latest story is up to 350+ sections and I find that I spend more time tinkering with the flowchart to keep track of it all than I spend on writing, and that is getting frustrating because it has really slowed the writing process. And yet without an organizational tool, keeping track of all of the plot branches would be a hopeless endeavor.
Is there a better option than Powerpoint? Something that automatically rearranges itself to accommodate branches would be nice, thereby removing the headache of trying to keep it uncluttered. And if I can put labels on branches that would also be a big plus.
Thanks for any suggestions!
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simkn
Kai Lord
Posts: 111
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Post by simkn on Apr 21, 2011 23:06:31 GMT
After a little more digging around I just discovered Graphviz is a package used by Project Aon.
It looks like I would have to learn the "dot" language. But a simple scripting language that creates a graph for me is much preferred over the incessant clicking-and-dragging that I currently do.
Would you recommend I learn to use "dot" for the job?
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Post by outspaced on Apr 22, 2011 12:39:32 GMT
After a little more digging around I just discovered Graphviz is a package used by Project Aon. It looks like I would have to learn the "dot" language. But a simple scripting language that creates a graph for me is much preferred over the incessant clicking-and-dragging that I currently do. Would you recommend I learn to use "dot" for the job? There are a number of free software programs that purport to help in managing gamebook creation. The most well known of these is probably Advelh by Oiseau, who sometimes posts on these forums. I think you can create flowcharts using Advelh, which may be easier, but I've never used it myself, so I can't really comment. I used DOT/GRAPHVIZ to create the flowcharts that are on my personal website. I've attached the DOT file that I created to generate the flowchart for The Warlock of Firetop Mountain, and it may give you some idea about how to write a DOT file. Load it into GVEdit (part of the Graphviz software package) and it will generate the flowchart for you, and save it as a GIF or an SVG. Personally, I prefer to hand-create the DOT files because I have more control over them, though the Project Aon DOT files are auto-generated from the source XML files using arcane scripts that I don't understand. Attachments:
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simkn
Kai Lord
Posts: 111
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Post by simkn on Apr 22, 2011 14:22:03 GMT
Thanks outspaced! It was actually your website where I learned about Graphviz. ;D
I went ahead and downloaded Graphviz last night and learned dot by reading the included documentation. I found it very easy and intuitive to learn... it's a markup language for flow charts which then creates the flowchart for you... it's perfect and exactly what I was looking for!
Thank you for the sample dot file. Although I understand the basics of dot well enough to make a basic flowchart, I realize there's a lot of power there that I'm not utilizing and having a complete example to look at is very helpful.
Cheers!
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Post by outspaced on Apr 22, 2011 15:47:07 GMT
Good to know I can help! All I'll add is that there are more in-depth functions for DOT than I use, so I'm really no expert--everything I know I learned from others or from reading through others' DOT files trying to make things work.
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simkn
Kai Lord
Posts: 111
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Post by simkn on Apr 22, 2011 20:55:42 GMT
All I'll add is that there are more in-depth functions for DOT than I use, so I'm really no expert--everything I know I learned from others or from reading through others' DOT files trying to make things work. On that note, do you know where I can find more sample DOT files? I'd like to see some examples (if any exist) of the bells and whistles that are available in DOT. The manual is a good compendium for all of the available functions but it's always nice to have more examples that utilize them. Thanks again!
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Post by outspaced on Apr 23, 2011 10:14:43 GMT
I only did a cursory search via Google, but this site actually looks to be very useful. I've just Bookmarked it myself.
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Post by pi4t on Apr 23, 2011 11:10:53 GMT
Personally, I find that pencil and paper is still the simplest method, and of course, you don't have to keep flicking windows when typing up your adventure.
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simkn
Kai Lord
Posts: 111
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Post by simkn on Apr 23, 2011 12:55:23 GMT
Thanks for the link outspaced. I agree that it looks like a useful page.
One thing I haven't figured out yet is how to do a subgraph. I've tried the given syntax but it gives me a compile error. Has anyone seen an example using subgraphs?
I think subgraphs could be useful as an orginizational tool. For instance in TKOT, you could put a box around all events that take place in Quarlen, another around Varetta, another around Taunor, etc. This would nicely show how the different phases of the story are grouped. I was doing this by hand earlier but why not do it during the generation of the SVG files?
On that note, if anyone has the original DOT files for the PA flowcharts, I would be happy to add this feature if there's an interest in having it.
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Post by outspaced on Apr 26, 2011 10:21:39 GMT
Thanks for the link outspaced. I agree that it looks like a useful page. One thing I haven't figured out yet is how to do a subgraph. I've tried the given syntax but it gives me a compile error. Has anyone seen an example using subgraphs? OK, I dug out a DOT file someone sent me some years ago as a flowchart for FF 59 that uses subgraphs. I asked him for a copy as I couldn't get subgraphs to work either! I still don't really understand the syntax and usage, so I won't be of much help, I'm afraid, but I hope the example I attached will help. The DOT files are generated automatically from the xml using conversion scripts. I have no idea how they work! I don't know how complex adding subgraphs would be, but I think it would be extremely difficult. :-\ Attachments:
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Post by Thomas Wolmer on Apr 26, 2011 12:00:33 GMT
The DOT files are generated automatically from the xml using conversion scripts. I have no idea how they work! I don't know how complex adding subgraphs would be, but I think it would be extremely difficult. :-\ It would require adding extra metadata somewhere, since the scripts cannot deduce what to encode as a subgraph from the contents of the XML files.
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Post by Zipp on Apr 26, 2011 14:35:16 GMT
Personally, I find that pencil and paper is still the simplest method, and of course, you don't have to keep flicking windows when typing up your adventure. Quoted for truth.
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simkn
Kai Lord
Posts: 111
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Post by simkn on Apr 27, 2011 4:06:07 GMT
OK, I dug out a DOT file someone sent me some years ago as a flowchart for FF 59 that uses subgraphs. I asked him for a copy as I couldn't get subgraphs to work either! I still don't really understand the syntax and usage, so I won't be of much help, I'm afraid, but I hope the example I attached will help. This is great! Once again, thanks so much for your help!
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aggsol
Kai Lord
Thinking about gamebooks...
Posts: 53
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Post by aggsol on May 7, 2018 8:31:04 GMT
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Post by Banjo on May 7, 2018 13:05:58 GMT
I've personally used and liked: Gamebook Creator - lots of potential but a bit buggy and sadly not updated for years; I wrote 2/3rds of a 1000 section gamebook with it, though, before switching to handwritten html. ZTab (with or without Fighting Fantasy Framework) - fantastic, but relies on hand-writing everything. Browser based output similar to PA's html books but with cool stat sidebars. Twine- has some irritating quirks, including having three or four different incompatible code languages to choose from, but great if you want something simple and/or web-published. Quest - can be used to make both gamebooks and text adventures, but much better suited to the latter IMO (where it is very extendable via user libraries).
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