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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 3:35:40 GMT
Post by Sol on Feb 9, 2005 3:35:40 GMT
Darn it, BUSTED!
OK, I admit it! I admit it! I may have taken a peek into one of Grant's books, NOOOO! Forgive me, Great God Kai forgive me! (sobs)
Seriously, I used to think somehow that Qinifer was Lone Wolf's sister. This is not actually true - the passage I was thinking of: TPOT section 175 - LW's sister is actually named Kari. How I ever got these two mixed up I will never know!
I actually haven't read the Grant books in quite a while, but may again just to do a comparison. I only own 1-5
(which in the UK would have been Book 1-4 since in the US they split Book 4 into a Book 4 and 5 for some reason... sadly, thereafter, they stopped publishing these altogether... a mistake made far too often IMHO).
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 3:54:30 GMT
Post by Black Cat on Feb 9, 2005 3:54:30 GMT
Grant's selling PDFs of the Legends series on his website. ProjectAon.org should have the link. After all that have been said about these books, do you think really that I'm going to spend my money on them? I would buy them only if there was some big discount, like the whole set for 10 $CDN.
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 5:48:37 GMT
Post by Zipp on Feb 9, 2005 5:48:37 GMT
I would recomend getting the Eclipse of the Kai. No matter what anyone says about the rest of the series, I still hold that this one was well written and very interesting. It is entirely backstory, taking place right before the first Lone Wolf book, and it's sad that the rest of the series aparantly didn't follow in its footsteps.
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 17:02:01 GMT
Post by Sol on Feb 9, 2005 17:02:01 GMT
I believe I will probably be rereading Eclipse at some point - perhaps After I have attained my birthright - the rank of Kai Supreme Master. First things first, natch!
Sol
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LWhistorian
Kai Lord
A bird with a paintbrush, beware!
Posts: 53
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 18:02:48 GMT
Post by LWhistorian on Feb 9, 2005 18:02:48 GMT
I have only read the first book and from what others are saying, I may keep it at that. I thought it was pretty interesting though I did find it odd that some of the other Kai at the monastery had Magnakai ranks even though the Book of Magnakai was still lost at that point.
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 18:22:46 GMT
Post by longhairyuppiescum on Feb 9, 2005 18:22:46 GMT
...though I did find it odd that some of the other Kai at the monastery had Magnakai ranks even though the Book of Magnakai was still lost at that point. Historian, sorry, but you don't do your name honor: Of couse, they could had Magnakai-Disciplines if they where Kai-Masters. The knowledge was passed on by mouth and personal training in the hundreth of years the Book of Magnakai was lost, but Kai-Masters where still living..
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 18:42:56 GMT
Post by Sol on Feb 9, 2005 18:42:56 GMT
Yes, this is an interesting point. LWHistorian, of course Puppiescum is right, as I am sure you immediately realized. Even so, you might imagine that over all of that time, the Kai Grand Master (whoever it was) or another Kai may have written a new Book of the Magnakai... it might stand to reason that Sun Eagle was not the only one who knew how to use a pen! I mean, if you can pass it down orally, couldn't you also write it down? Monks in general are known for being writers. Kai Monks (especially the older ones) would be expected to do the same.
Unless all the new Books of Kai Wisdom were also burned with the monastery...
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LWhistorian
Kai Lord
A bird with a paintbrush, beware!
Posts: 53
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 19:02:47 GMT
Post by LWhistorian on Feb 9, 2005 19:02:47 GMT
I know that it says that the traditions were passed down but I have my doubts that any Magnakai skills that the Kai at the time that the monastery was destroyed possessed were mere shadows of what they were supposed to be. You would hope that copies were made of the Book of Magnakai but if this was the case, why were no spare copies kept in the capital or elsewhere to prevent the knowledge from being wiped out in a fire or something like that?
I would think that the Kai who lived at the time of Sun Eagle got the full benefits of the training but if the traditions were merely handed down, it stands to reason that bits and pieces would be lost each century over that thousand year period.
Finally, these other Kai were training without the Lorestones, so I think that must have limited their skills to some extent since they could not meditate with the Lorestones as Sun Eagle, Lone Wolf, and the New Order Kai did.
I do get that some Magnakai skills were probably still being passed down but when Eclipse of the Kai mentioned an archmaster and a grandmaster, I just got skeptical since those titles would seem more honorary than anything else given that I don't think that grandmaster was anywhere near as skilled as he would have been if he had the Book of Magnakai and the Lorestones.
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 19:04:43 GMT
Post by Zipp on Feb 9, 2005 19:04:43 GMT
But they still probably called themselves Grandmasters. Even though they weren't really at that level.
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LWhistorian
Kai Lord
A bird with a paintbrush, beware!
Posts: 53
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 19:24:03 GMT
Post by LWhistorian on Feb 9, 2005 19:24:03 GMT
Yeah, so the titles would probably be given as more of a sign of respect then.
But I guess one's interpretation of the whole thing depends on what you make of the whole handing down the traditions bit. From my point of view, I just don't think it would be possible to properly hand down the Magnakai disciplines without the Book of Magnakai and the Lorestones. In the short term, it may be possible but over 1000 years, things are bound to happen.
I just hope that when Lone Wolf became a Grand Master that he had the intelligence to have some scribes make copies and spread them around a bit.
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 19:39:02 GMT
Post by Sol on Feb 9, 2005 19:39:02 GMT
But I guess one's interpretation of the whole thing depends on what you make of the whole handing down the traditions bit. From my point of view, I just don't think it would be possible to properly hand down the Magnakai disciplines without the Book of Magnakai and the Lorestones. In the short term, it may be possible but over 1000 years, things are bound to happen. I suppose it all depends upon which theory you believe holds the greater weight - entropy or evolution. With entropy, you would see the body of Kai Wisdom degrading over time. If you take it the other way, you can see that over time, the various masters would actually be improving upon the skills of Sun Eagle, enhancing the potency of the disciplines, and so forth over time and with continued experience.
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 20:18:09 GMT
Post by Sol on Feb 9, 2005 20:18:09 GMT
To take that a step further, this may have been what happened during the New Order series... since there are more disciplines available to the Kai New Order Grand Masters than there were to Lone Wolf.
This begs the question: were Grand Masters stronger at the time when the monastery was destroyed than they were in Sun Eagle's time? I mean, with 800 or more years having passed since Sun Eagle attained Grand Mastership, Grand Masters might know a lot more. SO when Lone Wolf recovered the Sun Eagle knowledge, he might have been going all the way back to the beginning - learning 1000-year-old skills!
Of course that would take quite a bit of the shine off, eh?
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 21:00:36 GMT
Post by Zipp on Feb 9, 2005 21:00:36 GMT
Actually, I was always under the impression that the Kai Warriors had grown a little soft. They were still fearsome warriors, but they felt too secure and let their senses go dull.
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Alyss
Feb 9, 2005 22:09:42 GMT
Post by Peregrine on Feb 9, 2005 22:09:42 GMT
I think the First Order still had all the Magnakai wisdom preserved--maybe even written down--but it was all destroyed with the Monastery. Lone Wolf needed the Lorestones to not only learn the skills, but learn them as fast as he did. Maybe the Disciplines were weaker, maybe stronger, but I firmly believe that they were there. A Kai Master is like a living Lorestone, if you will. Finally, these other Kai were training without the Lorestones, so I think that must have limited their skills to some extent since they could not meditate with the Lorestones as Sun Eagle, Lone Wolf, and the New Order Kai did. Sure they were. They were limited to the Magnakai Disciplines--Lone Wolf and his students surpassed them when they had the Lorestones and the Book.
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Alyss
Feb 10, 2005 15:19:46 GMT
Post by North Star on Feb 10, 2005 15:19:46 GMT
I like Eclipse of the Kai. I even have Joe Dever's signature in it NS.
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