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Post by Nym90 on Jun 3, 2016 20:23:18 GMT
If Lone Wolf was just for kids, I wouldn't still be interested in it now. Certain gamebook series like "Choose your own adventure" were definitely just for kids, I don't still have those books and don't miss them much either. I agree. I still like CYOA but I think just for nostalgia reasons. Objectively, most of them aren't very well written. Especially annoying to me was when your choices would result in very different happenings (or even a different backstory!) that weren't connected in any way to the choice you made. In other words, no consistency to the story. It varied from author to author, though. Edward Packard for example was much better than R.A. Montgomery. Joe would have none of that type of silliness in his books. There are a few leaps of logic but for the most part the "right" decision is pretty well clued and I don't recall there ever being an instance of a different choice causing some illogical change to the story outside your control.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jun 4, 2016 22:27:00 GMT
CYOA. Wow they were awful. I remember we started our own lending library in primsry school, that got us rapidly into the new wave of gamebooks, but we soon realised only Lonewolf & FF were worth reading. I've read my previous post and I apologise because I made my point too aggressively, but I still maintain that if GRRMartin ever saw a Lonewolf book he would have read all the things that influenced it previously and these are more likely to be influences. All fantasy writers draw inspiration from mythology and from each other, GRrMartin also draws heavily from history- the wall is directly inspired by Hadrian's Wall and the politics of much of Westeros from The War of the Roses. No one in his world worships a God of Evil, like this world they think that their Gods are the good ones and Evil or Darkness is something in other people. Ironically, again much as in the real world, those that are most convinced of their own righteousness are the ones driven to the most evil acts, when viewed objectively. Lonewolf, like most fantasy, is not saddled with such nuance and moral relativity: you know you are the champion of good and your enemies are the servants of evil, the enjoyment comes from lending your own good judgement to help your character destroy his enemies & increase in power. Common influences for kouras tas kai and Azor Ahai? Zoroastrianism, cult of Mithras, Osiris? Judaism? There are plenty.
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Post by Wise Eagle on Jun 5, 2016 9:04:48 GMT
The adult section.
Both draws elements from norse or/arthurian myths, as well as old lore from those countries. There is no absence of vendettas and cruelty in those sources. If there wasn't some adult element the books would probably be considered to be another type of book.
The walkers dont strike be as a likeness to demons. More to necromancers then. These type of creatures appear in most type of books. You need dark evil guys in the book. They often wear black and are returnees from the dead, given away their souls to the dark side in one way or another. Without them, you'd have another type of books. There is a big difference in knowing the origins in Magnamund and many of their qualities, whereas in GoT I have no idea.
The wolf is one of the most commonly used symbols. And there just aren't that many symbols to choose from. GoT seems to use a pletora of animals as symbols. The Sommlending draws on Norse for their origin, so them having that culture "North" / "Wolf" is not strange at all.
There are numerous Walls in Magnamund. Most of them nature made. The durncrags is merely a natural frontier, there are several examples of divine ones and bigger ones in Magnamund. History tell that the darklands had taken the country that was Sommerlund (but I assumed they had not had the time to despoil it), but the Sommlending when they arrived conquered all the territories east of the durncrags and drove the dark spawn back.
The Maakengorg, Chasm of Gorogon, Kraknalorg Chasm are all made by the Dark God in response to events on Magnamund, thus those landmarks are of divine origins.
The mountains encircling almost all of Telchos, and almost all of the Sadi Desert, are natural barriers.
Necromancy (and I'd add magic). These are in almost all worlds of this creation. A lot more about it is known on Magnamund, as we don't have much knowledge in Got. Special weapons are commonly necessary against more powerful undead.
Hmmmm... lands has got to have dangerous regions where no sane man would willingly travel. A world without dangerous and unconquered territory would most likely very soon feel restricted. Sometimes we know how the lands became dangerous, sometimes not. Earth has its share of fallen civilization and it is big breach of making the world believable to not have this.
The Long Night is related to GoT? The events you told of lasted millenia on Magnamund. The GoT books and series spans like 10-20 years, but there is events in the past mentioned. A large number of old civilization has been completely wiped out on earth. No need to look between book series for comparisons.
Migrations. No, not really. The migrations to Magnamund comes from overpopulation in an archipelago on the other side of the planet which is dominated by water. And most migrations has happened by ship, in comparative times on earth.
People from Kirlundin are fairly typical islander type of people. Living on a fairly small island greatly limits what you do and how the people around you develop. The Iron Isles and Kirlundin are greatly dissimilar in just about everything which could be different.
Killing of the First Races. Just consider how many cultures have been extinguished on earth. The jump between race and culture is not large at all.
A world where a lot of civilizations has not gone under, is not believable.
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Post by Wise Eagle on Jul 3, 2016 9:21:10 GMT
I've went through the books recently. So I can comment some more on some of the items. There are quite a few difference between the TV series and he books.
A few things that differ.
In the books, Jon never make it to hardhome since it conincides with him being stabbed to death. He intendes to go on a relief quest by land to the attacked ships. (I'm not sure what good that could possible have done though, you can't relieve ships from land.) So there is no descriptions of this battle except that it is a slaughter.
The darklands have waged attacks at the Kai Monastery (Sommerlund) and Talestria a couple of times over history, along with a pleutora of other places. It is always the plan for evil forces to acquire total domination.
The battle of blackwater probable would have gone the same. Since the naval battle was won by wild fire, and (wild) fire is one of the few things that does kill the undead.
In maganmund you had the long Helghast war, which lasted like 30 years. Where the Sommlending learnt how to combat the Helghast with magic, where originally they had no defences against them.
A lot of the "adult" aspect are different form series and books.
A. Ser Loras is not homosexual in the books, instead he is seriously wounded and taken out in the battle of Dragonstone. In the books he (as the third son) takes on the vows as a Kingsguard, thereby gaining a white cloak and foreits wife, children, etc.
B. Theon is not castrated in the books. Well, or I missed it. But he does lose 3 fingers, some toes, and most of his teeth are drawn or or destroyed, making it ver difficult for him to eat.
C. Shae is also very different. She ends up likewise in the end, but for quite a long time Tyrion does not want her in the Red Keep, and it is only after his wounding in the battle she is moved there. When it comes to relationships a lot of names and events are different.
D. Sansa is not raped by Bolton in the books. Instead what happens is that the Lannisters sends someone weakly resembling Arya to the north to marry him, and it is she that is raped and escapes with Theon. At the end of book 5 (which is the latest published), Sansa is still in the vale.
2. The Walkers. The free people created them as a defense from the humans. (Revealed in season 6).
3. Wolves are one of the most commonly used symbols. Almost all of the more powerful creatures are represented in the emblems.
Wolves are furred animals adapted to cold climate. They do live in mountains further south, but the wolf is mainly a creature living in the north. It is only one of the houses that has a dire wolf in it.
I'm much more inclined to belive that it will be Dany that is the savior. (Even though later episodes seem to hint that Jon is the offspring of Lyanna and a Targaryen). The books actually have the boy Aegon, who was supposed to have been killed at the sack of King's landing, survive. At the end of book 5, he is invading the lands south of King's Landing and will most likely get the support of Dorne, seeing that he is the son of Princess Elia from Dorn.)
4. The Wall. You need to make up your mind. Is it the Durncrags that is the wall or the wall around Toran? You can't have one item, corresponding to two things, taking parts from it. The wall around Holmguard is not magical. Anskaven and Tyso also have quite prominent walls.
The descent written by John Grant, isn't that from an ice wall in Kalte? (This is also a mundane wall, i.e. not magical.)
TBH the closest correspondance I see is actually the chasms in Magnamund which all have been created by the Dark God. These does make up for formidable land barriers, stretching huge distances, and very effectively prevent movement across them, while also acting as mustering points for Agarashi when the Dark God has a use for them.
5. Necromancy/Ixia. Well, I think that is probably just the way everyone does it. Death is usually associated with cold.
6. The Doom of Valyria.
There might be some difference. But the death of Valyria is mostly recounted as a natural disaster, which was seen as a punishment from the Gods. What seems to have happened is that a several hundred meters high tidal wave swept into the land and destroyed (almost) all life.
Doomlaands and the Darklands is a result of a despoilation which happened over centuries and is a result of the evil forces destroying the land. Nothing worthwhile lives in Naaros or the Darklands. (And if there is something anyway, it survives deep underground).
Taklakot is another story and much more similar too Valyria. Since it is a result of younger Shasarak meddling with powers he cant fully harness, which results in the whole of Taklakot being destroyed in one stroke when the artifact is destroyed.) The main difference is probably the inhabitants. Nothing but the undead live in Taklakot, but not so for Valyria.
7. The Long Night. This is just a general term describing a period where evil held sway. There is some variance to be had in naming, but in the end periods when evil rule has names like this one.
8. This is actually quite different.
In GoT there is two continents Essos and Westeros. And migrations are from the east to the west, since the east was where humans first evolved.
The continents in Magnamund is South and North. But most of the human races evolved on an archipelago across the world. When some islands in the archipelago got too many people on it, there was a migration into the continent on Magnamund. Depending on where in the archipelago the overpopulation occurred, migrations occurred in a different place.
9. The Ironmen has very little to do with Kilrundin. The ironborn are reavers and pirates. Not peaceful fishermen or marines.
Ironmen seems to me to have a bit of the Vikings in them, but the main different point is the single God and it being a sea god. The Vikings had many Gods.
The Vikings used water for transport for the ships, but they lived on land mainly. For the iron born, they would prefer probably never to be ashore.
10. This occurs everywhere and all the time. Even now to some extent, some populations and cultures are about to go extinct. Every day some forms of lives are exterminated.
12. Recurring Prophecy.
There is a lot of these in GoT. A huge amount more of these than in Lone Wolf.
The main two in Magnamund is the Koura-tas-Kai, and the prophecy that the Vashna and the dead of the Maakengorge shall rise.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jul 3, 2016 23:23:16 GMT
Just need to correct a couple of things there. GMartin doesn't do lots of steamy gay scenes for Ser Loras, but it's definitely implied he was sleeping with Renly Baratheon. Similarly, it never says it clearly, but it is implied that Ramsay does dismember Theon's genitalia in some way- I think he sent a piece to his sister. Also, it was The Children of the Forest that created White Walkers, not free-folk.
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Post by Wise Eagle on Jul 4, 2016 6:22:06 GMT
Just need to correct a couple of things there. GMartin doesn't do lots of steamy gay scenes for Ser Loras, but it's definitely implied he was sleeping with Renly Baratheon. Similarly, it never says it clearly, but it is implied that Ramsay does dismember Theon's genitalia in some way- I think he sent a piece to his sister. Also, it was The Children of the Forest that created White Walkers, not free-folk. The TV series has him gay, the books does not write one word about it. There is no trial at all vs. Ser Loras in the book, since he is in the Kingsguard and griveously wounded in the battle of Dragonstone. The Theon Story is different in the books. He is not castrated in the books. There is actually huge differences in the books vs the TV series. In the books Balon Greyjoy is the first king to die, before Robb Stark at the Red Wedding. Theon is not present in the Kingsmoot, where Euron is elected King (being held prisoner by Ramsay), which his sister (Asha in the books) thinks to use to make a new Kingsmoot to unseat Euron. Such a meeting would like hold no success if Theon was castrated. In the books, Asha flees to Deepwood Motte where she is later captured by Stannis. In the books it is Euron that sends his brother Victarion to Meereen with the ironborn Fleet, but not before wreaking Havoc on the Tyrrell's and forcing them to withdraw their Fleets home. It is the Children of the Forest that creates the White Walkers.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jul 4, 2016 19:38:00 GMT
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Post by Wise Eagle on Jul 4, 2016 21:54:44 GMT
Well, the main reason ser Loras went to Dragonstone in the books was that Cersei refused to let the Redwyne fleet go until Dragonstone was defeated. The Ironborn at this time were wreaking absolute havoc in the sea normally controlled by the Tyrell's, by force of the Redwyne fleet.
Without the fleet currently engaging Dragonstone, the Tyrrell's could only watch while they were being raped by the Ironborn. There might be some ulterior motives as well, but these probably had little effect on ser Loras decision.
There is no way to kill rumours for a Knight. Trying to do so only tends to spread them and make them believed. He might have been gay but the books does not emphasize this (as the TV series does), nor do the books have Ser Loras stand trail for it. A plausible possibility is that Renly was gay, and well, being the king, what choice does his knights have if he takes an interest in them?
Margarey is actually not released at the end of book 5 which is the last one released. But then again Cersei's walk of shame is one of the last things that happens.
Theon's member will probably be a popular topic at least until book 6 come out, implying something heavily does not make something true.
Yes, there are some implications. But generally, I'd not jump to the conclusion of castration if somebody tells me a male person is not a man.
The bed scene, however, well it does imply it heavily. It doesn't explain why Theon thinks of his missing toes, fingers and teeth all the time, if he his member had been flayed.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jul 5, 2016 12:18:39 GMT
Lora's was distraught at Renly's death and volunteered to join the Kings guard, meaning no wife for life. When asked if that would be a sacrifice he said something like "why would I mourn a candle when I have lost the sun". That's a bit more attached than i imagine a man who got buggered against his will would be. His character is more interesting and complex than that portrayed in the show however, he may have been bisexual or only besotted with Renly & never interested in other men before or since.
Incidentally Margaery was released to her relative Randyll Tarly, merely under house arrest for most of the time Cersei was imprisoned.
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