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Post by Nym90 on Oct 20, 2016 23:51:31 GMT
This is an attempt to catalog all unavoidable combats in the Lone Wolf books. In some situations, a combat of some sort is unavoidable, but different choices will lead to different combats; in that case, I chose the easiest combat (or the fewest combats if different choices lead to different numbers of combats).
If I missed anything, please correct me. I did not take into consideration that it might not be possible to have the particular selection of disciplines or items necessary to avoid all other combats in a book, so that would be especially helpful info.
Book 1: None Book 2: Harbour Thugs (CS 16, EP 25), Halvorc (CS 8, EP 11), Zombie Captain (CS 15, EP 15) Book 3: None Book 4: Vassagonian Warrior (CS 18, EP 25), Vassagonian Horseman (CS 20, EP 28) Book 5: Palace Gaoler (CS 14, EP 21), Drakkar (CS 18, EP 25), Dhorgaan (CS 20, EP 40) Book 6: Undead Summonation (CS 18, EP 35), Pirate Berserkers (CS 20, EP 30), Dakomyd (CS 25, EP 50) Book 7: Throne-hall Guard (CS 14, EP 22) Book 8: Vordak 1 (CS 22, EP 28), Vordak 2 (CS 21, EP 26) Book 9: Zaaryx Ghoul (CS 19, EP 27), Psi-Ghoul (CS 20, EP 30) Book 10: None Book 11: Scarlet Warrior (CS 25, EP 50), Agtah Scouts (CS 26, EP 21), Chaos-Master (badly-wounded) (CS 38, EP 54), Shadow Reavers (CS 25, EP 40), Villains of Sommerlund (CS 38, EP 46), Vonotar the Traitor (with Power Ring) (CS 30, EP 21) Book 12: Drakkarim Marine (CS 23, EP 27), another Drakkarim Marine (CS 23, EP 27), Drakkarim Sailor (CS 19, EP 23), Drakkarim Gunner (CS 19, EP 25), Darklord Kraagenskul (CS 45, EP 48), Mind Reaper (CS 24, EP 32)
Will post more later.
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Post by UrQuan on Oct 21, 2016 1:22:34 GMT
Correct so far.
The Elix combat is actually easier than the Palace Gaoler.
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Post by Nym90 on Oct 21, 2016 4:19:04 GMT
Correct so far. The Elix combat is actually easier than the Palace Gaoler. True, due to having the Sommerswerd available. I just went by lowest enemy stats, but not considering Lone Wolf's own stats. I should also mention that in book 4, instead of fighting the Vassagonian Horseman, you could instead fight two easier combats against Vassagonian Warhounds (CS 17, EP 30) and either Bandit Horseman or Bandit Warrior (both CS 17, EP 24). Three lower combat skill points for each of those two opponents, but the additional risk of an extra combat. Likewise in book 12 you could avoid the harder fight against Darklord Kraagenskul by fighting two easier combats against Crypt Spawn Flood (CS 30, EP 36) and Darklord Kraagenskul (wounded) (CS 30, EP 29). But you have to risk an insta-death in order to do so, so the balance probably tips towards fighting Kraagenskul full strength instead most of the time. On to the Grand Master series. Book 13: 2 Ruel Giganite (CS 38, EP 60), Exterminus (CS 50, EP 50), Acolyte of Vashna (with Medallion of Protection) (CS 25, EP 40), Vazhag Lancer (CS 32, EP 20) Book 14: Drakkarim (CS 26, EP 35), Ice Dragon (polymorphed Nadziran) (CS 48, EP 52), Zavaghar (CS 52, EP 60) Book 15: Armoury Guards (CS 32, EP 40), Lencian Crusader (CS 34, EP 36), 3 Tukodak Guardians (in battle-frenzy) (CS 44, EP 44), Tarhdemon (polymorphed Nadziran) (CS 42, EP 42), Warlord Magnaarn (with Nyras Sceptre) (CS 50, EP 36) Book 16: Vortexi (weakened by psychic attack) (CS 40, EP 22), Lavas (CS 44, EP 42), Acolytes of Vashna (CS 40, EP 45), Arch Druid Cadak (CS 45, EP 32) Book 17: Ixian Undead (CS 43, EP 52), 3 Kajarda (CS 48, EP 42), Demonlord Tagazin (CS 54, EP 60), Chaos-horde (CS 37, EP 45), Lavas (CS 49, EP 52), Demonlord Tagazin (injured) (CS 45, EP 45), Deathlord Ixiataaga (with Deathstaff—uncharged) (CS 60, EP 39) Book 18: Eldenoran Ambushers (CS 38, EP 42), Ghost of Roark (CS 48, EP 30), Lavas (CS 48, EP 46) Book 19: Wolf's Bane (CS 4 points higher than yours, EP equal to yours), 2 Cryopedeans (CS 38, EP 32) Book 20: Zantaz (CS 50, EP 46), Kekataag the Avenger (CS 60, EP 58)
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Post by Black Cat on Oct 21, 2016 14:43:00 GMT
Not sure, but in the new version of book 1 by Mongoose Publishing, isn't the fight against the fake Prince Pelethar impossible to avoid?
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Post by Nym90 on Oct 21, 2016 19:43:35 GMT
Not sure, but in the new version of book 1 by Mongoose Publishing, isn't the fight against the fake Prince Pelethar impossible to avoid? The above was for the old book 1. For the new version, the following are unavoidable: Giak Assault Trooper (CS 14, EP 12), Giak Net Soldier (CS 14, EP 13), Giak Assault Troopers (CS 14, EP 15), Giak Captain (with psychic protection) (CS 16, EP 20), Helghast (CS 22, EP 30)
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Post by Black Cat on Oct 22, 2016 15:21:29 GMT
Even if the following books weren't as heavily edited by Joe, maybe there are other unavoidable combats in the new version of the books? I don't know if it was already covered in another thread, but if not, maybe you could make one.
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Post by Nym90 on Oct 22, 2016 16:15:55 GMT
I don't have most of the new editions (looking forward to them being released by Holmgrard Press!).
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Post by John Bryntze on Oct 25, 2016 8:34:20 GMT
Seeing all the battles in Book 11 that you cannot avoid wonders about the text in the book "Regardless how low combat score you have... yada yada... with right skills and equipment you can make it" sort of thing... that was true until book 11 to avoid all battles in Book 10 is possible but you need luck in the end
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Post by Nym90 on Oct 25, 2016 19:13:32 GMT
Seeing all the battles in Book 11 that you cannot avoid wonders about the text in the book "Regardless how low combat score you have... yada yada... with right skills and equipment you can make it" sort of thing... that was true until book 11 to avoid all battles in Book 10 is possible but you need luck in the end Yeah, especially the difficulty of the unavoidable combats (Chaos-Master, Villains) and the fact that the Villains and Vonotar are one after another with no opportunity to heal between unless you have potions. Book 12 also has a lot of unavoidable combats, but at least they are easier. These two books have more than any other Lone Wolf books. The book 10 combatless route is not easy to find. Requires luck, the proper choice of disciplines and sometimes counterintuitive choices, but it is unique among the Magnakai books in being possible to complete without a combat. Book 3, I believe, is the only one in the entire series in which it is possible to complete it with no reliance whatsoever on luck. Will do the New Order and Grey Star books when I get time.
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Post by UrQuan on Oct 26, 2016 8:45:14 GMT
Correct so far. The Elix combat is actually easier than the Palace Gaoler. True, due to having the Sommerswerd available. I just went by lowest enemy stats, but not considering Lone Wolf's own stats. I should also mention that in book 4, instead of fighting the Vassagonian Horseman, you could instead fight two easier combats against Vassagonian Warhounds (CS 17, EP 30) and either Bandit Horseman or Bandit Warrior (both CS 17, EP 24). Three lower combat skill points for each of those two opponents, but the additional risk of an extra combat. That Vassagonian Horseman fight is only one round so it's always easier. Sure. In book 13 answering one of the puzzles bypasses the Plague Hound. In book 17 the minimum is actually 7. If you don't fight Tagazin the first time (only possible if you don't have the Sommerswerd), then you need to fight him later for the Power Spike. In that case you are doomed if you "K" him. In book 19 there is the combat against Wolf's Bane too.
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Post by UrQuan on Oct 26, 2016 8:52:34 GMT
Even if the following books weren't as heavily edited by Joe, maybe there are other unavoidable combats in the new version of the books? I don't know if it was already covered in another thread, but if not, maybe you could make one. There isn't, in the Mongoose editions at least.
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Post by Wise Eagle on Oct 26, 2016 11:40:17 GMT
This is an attempt to catalog all unavoidable combats in the Lone Wolf books. In some situations, a combat of some sort is unavoidable, but different choices will lead to different combats; in that case, I chose the easiest combat (or the fewest combats if different choices lead to different numbers of combats). If I missed anything, please correct me. I did not take into consideration that it might not be possible to have the particular selection of disciplines or items necessary to avoid all other combats in a book, so that would be especially helpful info. Book 1: None Book 2: Harbour Thugs (CS 16, EP 25), Halvorc (CS 8, EP 11), Zombie Captain (CS 15, EP 15) Book 3: None Book 4: Vassagonian Warrior (CS 18, EP 25), Vassagonian Horseman (CS 20, EP 28) Book 5: Palace Gaoler (CS 14, EP 21), Drakkar (CS 18, EP 25), Dhorgaan (CS 20, EP 40) Book 6: Undead Summonation (CS 18, EP 35), Pirate Berserkers (CS 20, EP 30), Dakomyd (CS 25, EP 50) Book 7: Throne-hall Guard (CS 14, EP 22) Book 8: Vordak 1 (CS 22, EP 28), Vordak 2 (CS 21, EP 26) Book 9: Zaaryx Ghoul (CS 19, EP 27), Psi-Ghoul (CS 20, EP 30) Book 10: None Book 11: Scarlet Warrior (CS 25, EP 50), Agtah Scouts (CS 26, EP 21), Chaos-Master (badly-wounded) (CS 38, EP 54), Shadow Reavers (CS 25, EP 40), Villains of Sommerlund (CS 38, EP 46), Vonotar the Traitor (with Power Ring) (CS 30, EP 21) Book 12: Drakkarim Marine (CS 23, EP 27), another Drakkarim Marine (CS 23, EP 27), Drakkarim Sailor (CS 19, EP 23), Drakkarim Gunner (CS 19, EP 25), Darklord Kraagenskul (CS 45, EP 48), Mind Reaper (CS 24, EP 32) Will post more later. Book 1: For the Mongoose edition there is half a dozen unavoidable encounters while fleeing the Kai Monastery, and the final encounter in the King's Hall in Holmgard. For previous editions, there is probably no mandatory fights. Book 2: Halvorc: Avoidable. You will need to fight one of Viveka, Parsion, Halvorc or Ganon and Dorier however. The norm here would probably be Parsion. Zombie Captain: Avoidable. I usually never face him. Book 3: Akra Neonor is mandatory in a successful run completing the mission. (But not if you only count survival) Book 5: Dhorgaan is not mandatory. Crypts Spawn and Haakon might be faced instead retrieving the Sommerswerd. Book 9: Zakhan Kimah is avoidable only if you don't have the Sommerswerd. Book 12: Think most of the marines can be avoided, but at the cost of other harder enemies.
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Post by Wise Eagle on Oct 26, 2016 12:00:02 GMT
On to the Grand Master series. Book 13: 2 Ruel Giganite (CS 38, EP 60), Plague Hound (wounded) (CS 32, EP 36), Exterminus (CS 50, EP 50), Acolyte of Vashna (with Medallion of Protection) (CS 25, EP 40), Vazhag Lancer (CS 32, EP 20) Book 14: Drakkarim (CS 26, EP 35), Ice Dragon (polymorphed Nadziran) (CS 48, EP 52), Zavaghar (CS 52, EP 60) Book 15: Armoury Guards (CS 32, EP 40), Lencian Crusader (CS 34, EP 36), 3 Tukodak Guardians (in battle-frenzy) (CS 44, EP 44), Tarhdemon (polymorphed Nadziran) (CS 42, EP 42), Warlord Magnaarn (with Nyras Sceptre) (CS 50, EP 36) Book 16: Vortexi (weakened by psychic attack) (CS 40, EP 22), Lavas (CS 44, EP 42), Acolytes of Vashna (CS 40, EP 45), Arch Druid Cadak (CS 45, EP 32) Book 17: Ixian Undead (CS 43, EP 52), 3 Kajarda (CS 48, EP 42), Chaos-horde (CS 37, EP 45), Lavas (CS 49, EP 52), Demonlord Tagazin (injured) (CS 45, EP 45), Deathlord Ixiataaga (with Deathstaff—uncharged) (CS 60, EP 39) Book 18: Eldenoran Ambushers (CS 38, EP 42), Ghost of Roark (CS 48, EP 30), Lavas (CS 48, EP 46) Book 19: 2 Cryopedeans (CS 38, EP 32) Book 20: Zantaz (CS 50, EP 46), Kekataag the Avenger (CS 60, EP 58) Book 13: The Ruel Giganite is avoidable. Just go through the tunnels instead, but there is an unavoidable Dholdarg on that path. Not sure about the plague hound being mandatory. Generally would not fight that one. Book 14: Vodok? Maybe it can be killed but then I'd never have that skill. Book 16: There is a second batch of Vortexi which are faced between the acolytes and Cadak. Book 18: There is more mandatory Lavas than one. At least one before reaching the Kai Monastery, and at least one at the Kai Monastery. Book 19: Wolf's Bane
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Post by Nym90 on Oct 26, 2016 15:06:01 GMT
Thanks for the corrections, Ur-Quan. I had missed Wolf's Bane since it's not coded as a combat in the flowcharts on this site that show all paths through the books. Likewise in book 13, missed the fact that a puzzle solution can bypass the Plague Hound (I had caught being able to avoid Shamath this way in book 16).
And in book 17, I added the first Tagazin fight, which is easier than having to fight him later on for the Power Spike (not to mention that you are worse off with the Spike than the Sommerswerd anyhow).
I edited my list above.
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Post by Nym90 on Oct 26, 2016 15:15:41 GMT
Wise Eagle--Sorry if I was unclear. Some of these combats are avoidable, but only by fighting more difficult combats instead, or a greater number of combats. Perhaps a better title for this thread would have been "a list of the combats fought in each book if following the path attempting to avoid combats as much as possible". I also didn't consider that you might have to risk an insta-death to avoid a combat, as in the case of Zakhan Kimah in book 9. It is arguable which is the better path in this case. I am sure that Ur-Quan has done the math on where the cut off is stats-wise below which it becomes better to throw the dagger vs. fighting him. I made a later post above showing the unavoidable combats in the new version of book 1. In the original, it is possible to avoid all combats with some luck and correct discipline choices. In book 3, you can avoid the Akraa-Neonoor by having the Effigy.
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