Rating the Bonus Adventures

[andyc]

So what BAs would be best prioritising for a compilation re-release?

Biggest priority would be the unreleased (In English) ones:

Swedish Editions:
2)Dagger of the Mind
8)The Slavers of Xanar
9)The Lost and the Damned
10)The Partisan

And the Grey Star BAs:
GS1)Druse Quest
GS2)The Treasure of Madness
GS3)The Chains of Ghol-Tabras
GS4)?

Obviously, easily anything with Vincent's and August Hahn's name attached. In other words,

20)The Purifiers of Kazan-Oud
22)A Wytch's Nightmare
23)Lost in the Kelderwastes
29)The Tides of Gorgoron

10)Echoes of Lost Light
14/16/19/25/26 Dire parts 1-5
30)Kaum Before the Storm

Also, the high quality BAs below are just as worthy:

6)The Key to the Future
11)Lord of Meledor
21) Echoes of Moonstone
24) A Traitor's Reward

The next batch, while not quite up with the best, would be a great shame not to include:

1)Dawn of the Darklords
3)Vonotar's Web
4)Ruanon (give him back a damn sword tho!)
7)The All-seeing One (lower the enemy stats?)
15)Castle Akital
18)The Dead of Chrude

The remainder I would probably not want to play again, so would only want them included in a sense of completeness:

2)The Crown of King Alin IV
5)The Tomb of the Majhan
8)Masquerade in Hikas
9)The Guildmaster's Hammer
12)Aboard the Intrepid
13)Plague Agent
17)Labyrinth of Sorrow

Obviously this is all just my opinion, so take it all with a massive bag of salt!

[zorkraan]

andyc Excellent initiative to list all the existing BAs! FYI GS4BA is entitled "Battle of the Wytches". You have also 2 "Noodnic" short gamebook adventures which were only released in Sweden, namely "All that Glitters" and "Hungering Deeps" - they are not technically BAs as they were released as standalones, but they are definitely the same kind of material!

Now,considering Holmgard Press is planning to release them as compendiums in the long term, I'm curious to know how you guys would group them in such compilations:
By gamebook cycle or era?
By characters?
By character classes?
By geographic areas? (e.g. Lastlands, Stornlands, Dessi, Shadakine Empire...)
By other criteria?
Then, what would be your groupings ? A good example (which is nearly sure to be done) is a "Dire" compendium (grouping LW14, 16, 19, 25 & 26's Bas) for obvious continuity reasons.

... But keeping in mind that there is a great heterogeneity, as you now, in terms of word counts between BAs, some of them being extremely short (LW2BA, LW5BA, LW9BA) while others are longer than the first LW gamebooks (LW24BA, GS1BA, LW29BA...)... I mean, you can't make 3 of the biggest ones fit in the same tome...

I won't promise anything regarding what will published and the schedule, but it could help us to have some feedback . What would you love to see ?

[lorddarkstorm]

Group them in such a way that forces andy to re-buy the ones he doesn't like

But seriously, aside from the Dire ones which should be their own book, whatever makes sense to keep a reasonably consistent page count per compilation I guess. It would be nice to have them by era if possible.

[andyc]

May 17, 2021 20:06:20 GMT lorddarkstorm said:

Group them in such a way that forces andy to re-buy the ones he doesn't like

But seriously, aside from the Dire ones which should be their own book, whatever makes sense to keep a reasonably consistent page count per compilation I guess. It would be nice to have them by era if possible.

Heh heh. You know I will buy them all regardless!

Dire in one volume I agree is key. As for the all the others, I would suggest the Grey Star BAs get released as a set or better still, released as CEs like the main series CEs.

Keeping in mind that the BAs of 1-13 are likely owned and been played by a higher number of fans, in addition to them being, on the whole, shorter and not quite as good as the later ones; then I would suggest having a mix of both them and more 'premium' BAs in each compendium. Premium BAs being the later BAs and especially the Swedish only ones, so that each release is as essential to fans as possible. The BAs in the Holmgard releases are currently readily available of course, so I guess they wouldn't be ideal premium ones either to tempt the punters.
I personally would prefer a single complete volume of all your BAs Vincent, but being honest, it would be better to make me want to buy ALL the collections.
Beyond that and page count, I can't think of any clear and easy pairings between them. Chronological would again be my personal preference, but that wouldn't work with the above strategy. So the final thing would be to mix up the styles for variation, for example, avoiding a collection of only dungeon crawls.

Well that's my slightly erratic two cents. Feel free to take no notice due to my complete lack of knowledge in the arena of publishing books!

[andyc]

Actually looking at that long list of all LW media in chronological order that you posted some time back, it might work better than I had expected to release them in chronological blocks. You'll be starting strong with the new Lost and the Damned together with the two Noodnic ones, LW5BA and LW2BA might squeeze in and act as the less premium entries in set one.
Set two would include Dawn of the Darklords, then the new Dagger of the Mind, followed by LW3BA and maybe GS1BA if no Grey Star CEs are planned.
You get the idea. Those 'premium' BAs are spaced better than I thought they would. It would sit nicely next to the equally chronological main series.

[Black Cat]

I really, REALLY, do hope that Holmgard release a CE version of the Grey Star series (with the bonus adventures).

Of course, the Dire series, like I've already mentionned in another thread, should get its own book.

Then there are the ones that have not been printed in English so far (I'm thinking of the Swedish ones). Of course, if Holmgard decides one day to print a new Collector's Edition of the books that had been released by Mongoose and Mantikore (which I don't think is currently planned, only the Definitive Edition without BAs), they could probably replace the original BAs with the new ones but for someone like me, who already has all the books, I would probably liked to play these BAs without having to rebuy the series, hence the special book with only these BAs.

For the rest, I think it should depend on the page count (so the price should not vary too much), but that could cause a headache for Holmgard Press to try to balance each book to have approximately the same number of pages with 4-5 BAs...

[lorddarkstorm]

If Holmgard do CE versions of the Gray Star books, I hope something new is used for the covers, or if not, use the lovely Iain McCaig/Pete Lyon (who are both still easily contactable) art from the originals. The newer ones done by Alberto Dal Lago for Vincent Books were overall pretty disappointing to me. Didn't seem up to his usual standards.

[Ofecks]

May 17, 2021 14:28:59 GMT zorkraan said:

By geographic areas? (e.g. Lastlands, Stornlands, Dessi, Shadakine Empire...)

This would be cool. I will Nth the Dire series having its own volumes.

[andyc]

BA27 Shadow Stalkers
Oh this was worth the wait. An absolute corker of an adventure. I really loved how it explores a region so close to Sommerlund yet so previously unexplored. The regions and their troubles were very interesting to experience as was the nasty new threat that you discover. It perhaps has almost too much going on to cover in a 175 section book, what with Helghasts, assassins, the events occurring in a certain city mid-story as well as the significant end game, but then realistically what can one old sailor do to solve the myriad problems of a nation? It ended satisfactorily, even if some stories remain to be told.
The only very minor issues I had were firstly that it seemed a little too hard. I somehow won, but by Kai I had many lucky rolls; perhaps it could have done with more chances to heal, or maybe I missed them. The other imperfection might be down to translation, as I sometimes needed to check back a few sections as I hadn't quite understood something e.g. the question 'was it nighttime or dinner time?' Errr..
Other times I felt there might be a line of text missing e.g. on page 79 you (mercifully) regain 3End, but without an explanation. I can deduce that my companion healed me too in addition to the others he his stated as healing, but it is little things like that, that keep it from being an absolute perfect score. Anyway, minor issues in what is clearly one of the better BAs, so it gets a 4/5 from me.

Anyone else who have read it (or other BAs recently) and want to give their thoughts or mini-review then please do. The more the merrier!

[andyc]

As a slight addition, there certainly appears to be multiple routes through the book, though the path narrows towards the climax. Good replayability with this one.

[Black Cat]

Jul 18, 2021 22:07:46 GMT andyc said:

Anyone else who have read it (or other BAs recently) and want to give their thoughts or mini-review then please do. The more the merrier!

Mmmh... Not sure of this one. It felt as if is was made by putting two very different stories one after the other. In the first part, I was expecting that I was going to fight Helghasts who seemed to have taken control of southern Durenor. There was an assassination attempt on me, one delegation never reached Hammerdal, bandits were roaming the highways and seemed to be getting orders from someone... That was interesting in itself and I was expecting to fight a baron that was in fact a Helghast in disguise to end the threat. This part could had been the BA just by itself and I would had been happy.

And then, after dealing with two such Helghasts, out of nowhere, the plot changes completely to something not at all related to the first part, as if the Monty Pythons would had said: "And now, for something completely different!". That second part was interesting too, with these new enemies coming from the Void (something that I thought would be interesting to explore in a BA way before this one was published) and the fact that it was mostly taking place at sea (Ernan is a sailor, after all). But those two parts put together one after the other to form one big adventure made it strange in the end. What was the purpose of the first part if the second one is not linked at all with the events told so far? The ending left me with the sensation that the first part of the story didn't matter, as if what was taking place in southern Durenor was not important at all, that it was just filling numbered sections before the real thing. I think it could had been skipped, which would had lowered the number of sections and maybe allowed it to be published in book 31 (and get a totally different BA in 27) or it would had allowed to have more sections to explore the islands. I think they should had developped only one of the two parts of the story, not both, because as I said earlier, part one could had been the BA just by itself, although part two could also be the BA by itself too!

I must also complained about the character of Tildan. Most of LW companions are developped to some extent. Sadly, I thought Tildan was boring because I don't think he got well developped during the course of the adventure. When he sacrifices himself in the end, I just raised my shoulders and said: "Meh..." I didn't have a strong bond with the character because the relationship was not well established with Ernan. Sharno was better developped IMO and he only comes in the second part of the BA! Also, Tildan don't play a role in battles as important as other companions met in the LW series or in other BA. I think it was a missed opportunity.

As mentionned by andyc, the adventure is hard... but I think it is because in the first part, you meet enemies with CS scores in the mid-20s (Helghasts, Assassin, Ice Demon...). I haven't checked thoroughly, but it seemed that in the second part, enemies have lower CS, closer to 20.

Also, indeed, some weird translations... or were they just typos? Section 153: "A hooded silhouette [leaves the watchtower]. They move in the direction of the harbour..." Unless I don't know some rules regarding the word 'silhouette' in English, if there's only one leaving a watchtower, then it should be written "It moves in the direction of the harbour...", no? The rest of the section also used frequently the pronoun "they" while also clearly stating there is only one silhouette.

[Oiseau]

Maybe the silhouette is genderfluid.

[Black Cat]

Apparently, singular 'they' has now been accepted in English in recent years... I still find this weird...

[rhygar]

Jul 21, 2021 6:16:17 GMT Black Cat said:

"A hooded silhouette [leaves the watchtower]. They move in the direction of the harbour..." 

That sentence is jarring and instinctively feels wrong grammatically, because it is wrong. 

Jul 21, 2021 6:16:17 GMT Black Cat said:

 Unless I don't know some rules regarding the word 'silhouette' in English, if there's only one leaving a watchtower, then it should be written "It moves in the direction of the harbour...", no? The rest of the section also used frequently the pronoun "they" while also clearly stating there is only one silhouette.

No Black Cat, you are right and you haven't forgotten any rules. A silhouette is neither masculine or feminine. As you correctly say, it is an 'it'. 

Jul 21, 2021 6:16:17 GMT Black Cat said:

Apparently, singular 'they' has now been accepted in English in recent years... I still find this weird...

It has been around for a while and is in response to the old default of using 'he' to mean either man or woman.
'They' is more neutral even if it really ought to be only used as a plural pronoun. 
Examples:
(referring to girls and boys or people in general) - 'If anyone has any questions, he ought to ask now'
This might now be changed to, 'If anyone has any questions, they ought to ask now'
Some people prefer 'he or she' and say, 'If anyone has any questions, he or she ought to ask now'
 
Nowadays the first of those examples sounds, shall we say, more old-fashioned? You'll very often hear the second one (the 'they') in speech. 

We've still got 'one' to refer to people in general. Maybe the Norman French brought it over and it has clung on (what little French I recall learning is that French has the impersonal pronoun 'on'). It sounds quite formal to our ears and is generally associated with the upper classes. 
'One never knows what to expect to see in Project Aon, does one?' 

[palarran]

Jul 18, 2021 22:07:46 GMT andyc said:

Anyone else who have read it (or other BAs recently) and want to give their thoughts or mini-review then please do. The more the merrier!

I’m mostly with Black Cat on this one. The adventure feels like patchwork, combining two very different parts. And not just story wise: While part one offers many choices and different paths, part two is pretty much straightforward. They should have done one or the other, the merged story does not really work for me.

I never actually got drawn in. Ernan was going places, fighting here and there, but I never connected. So I merely shrugged off losing Tildan in the end – he had simply never been fleshed out enough for me to care about him. And then it was suddenly all over, right in the middle of a battle.

I think the main problem for me has to do with suspension of disbelief. Too many things in this adventure don’t make sense to me.

SPOILER ALERT

It’s an urgent and vitally important mission to get the magicians to Hammerdal, so off course they send them in small, easily assailable groups, slowly, by land and sea, instead of putting them all on a skyship with a proper guard and deliver them safely within hours. The king of Durenor sends sommerlending agents on a mission to an unruly province where he knows foreigners are not exactly welcome. Tildan can quickly identify a helghast in a throng of people from afar, across a crowded plaza, but misses the one he’s talking to in an otherwise empty room. Then again, he knows all of Vashna’s uber-assassins by name. And so on.

END SPOILERS

The author may have good explanations for all these points, but for me, they killed the spirit of the adventure.

Plus, or rather minus, there were some problems I would blame on sloppy translation. “Did you read a book about Bolden?” for example is not the same as “Did you read about Bolden in a book?”. Years were given as e.g. PL 3401 instead of MS 3401 (“Pietra di Luna” in Italian instead of “Moonstone” in English). And there were numerous typos as well.

Enough ranting.

Definitely not my favorite, but hey, andyrc liked it a lot, so I say give it a shot!