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Post by Storm Dancer on May 2, 2004 13:50:40 GMT
Though a little pointless when you have the Kai nukesword for 99% of the time ;D
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Post by Relenoir on May 3, 2004 1:57:07 GMT
Wow, quite a lengthy response. Sorry to make you go to so much trouble. Anyway, thank you very much for your detailed and helpful responses!
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Post by The Tagazin Poodle on May 3, 2004 12:34:01 GMT
I never had a problem with the Chaos Master. The Zahkan, on the other hand....
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Post by AlbinoChocobo on May 3, 2004 14:10:06 GMT
I took stats for LoneWolf from my last replay of the books, I'm not claiming this is the best circumstances for this combat. for a total CS of 41, fitting neatly in the -6/-5 column of the combat result table. You can't expect to win with less :damage ratio in this column is 1.28 in favor of Lone Wolf, but the Chaosmaster has twice the EP; damage ratio in the -8/-7 column is a catastrophic 0.78. However, those who remembered to save the +4 Alether potion (which is carried in my backpack, and thus stupidely lost in Kazan Oud lake) can enjoy a 2 columns shift, damage ratio becomes 2.5, and victory becomes pretty easy (circa 76%, once again kudos to J. Blake for his calculator). Finally, for optimising freaks among us, the best path for the Zakhan Kimah / Chaosmaster double feature is probably : Lone Wolf CS: 19 Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +1 CS (Lore-circle of Fire) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +3 CS (Lore-circle of Spirit) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +3 CS (Weaponmastery / Sword) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +8 CS (Sommerswerd) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +2 CS (Shield) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +2 CS (Silver Helm) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +2 CS (Potion of Alether)
Lone Wolf EP: 28 Lone Wolf EP Modifier: +2 EP (Lore-circle of Fire) Lone Wolf EP Modifier: +3 EP (Lore-circle of Spirit)
Enemy CS: 44 Enemy EP: 50
Use Psi-surge: false (immune to all)=> 65%, 10EP remaining By book 9, Lone Wolf is a Principalin (6 disciplines), meaning both circle of Fire and Spirit can be complete. Means giving up on Curing until book 10, though. I haven't tried, but it might be a bit tight sometimes. Lone Wolf CS: 19 Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +1 CS (Lore-circle of Fire) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +3 CS (Lore-circle of Spirit) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +4 CS (Improved Weaponmastery / Sword) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +8 CS (Sommerswerd) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +2 CS (Shield) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +2 CS (Silver Helm) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +2 CS (This combat only : completed Lore-circle of Spirit) Lone Wolf CS Modifier: +4 CS (Alether)
Lone Wolf EP: 31 Lone Wolf EP Modifier: +2 EP (Lore-circle of Fire) Lone Wolf EP Modifier: +3 EP (Lore-circle of Spirit)
Enemy CS: 47 Enemy EP: 68
Use Psi-surge: true Psi-surge Bonus: 4 (since the Chaos-master is immune to Mindblast) Psi-surge Penalty: 2 Psi-surge Cutoff: 6
=> 78%, 10EP. That special Alether potion put to good use. Completing the circle of Solaris (+1CS/+3EP) puts you at 94%/13EP, but once again, it means delaying Curing until you basically are a grandmaster. Actually (sorry, I'm thinking as I write this), it depends on your interpretation of the rules. If you suppose the basic Kai Healing ability still heals 1EP/section, the best path is probably : Zakhan Kimah : circles of Fire + Spirit, concentrated Alether => 89%/13EP Chaosmaster : add Solaris, use normal Alether :=> 74%/10EP Foregoing Curing may actually make a (relative) piece of cake of both big fights .... Of course, if your initial CS is less than 19, you're dead anyway ... Guess I'll try that right away Sorry for the long post, and yes, I am a number maniac ;D
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Post by Vonotar on May 3, 2004 16:51:13 GMT
I took stats for LoneWolf from my last replay of the books, I'm not claiming this is the best circumstances for this combat. Actually (sorry, I'm thinking as I write this), it depends on your interpretation of the rules. If you suppose the basic Kai Healing ability still heals 1EP/section, the best path is probably : Zakhan Kimah : circles of Fire + Spirit, concentrated Alether => 89%/13EP Chaosmaster : add Solaris, use normal Alether :=> 74%/10EP Foregoing Curing may actually make a (relative) piece of cake of both big fights .... Of course, if your initial CS is less than 19, you're dead anyway ... Guess I'll try that right away Sorry for the long post, and yes, I am a number maniac ;D Good post, but I wanted to make a few points 1. Basic healing does carry on into the Magnakai series (see Project Aon FAQ section), and so it's probably best to go for the Circle of Solaris in Book 11, just to get that extra CS/EP bonus. Curing does grant you the ability to recognise various healing plants in Book 11 (EP restoration becomes a big issue towards the end), but this has to be balanced against the need for optimal CS/EP in the Chaos Master fight. So it's probably best to wait until Book 12 to take Curing. 2. I prefer to use the concentrated Alether for the bow contest against Altan. The Silver Oak Bow is so useful that it's worth the loss of the potion. Also, it's hard to logically justify the steps that need to be taken it order to still have the potion for Books 9 or 11. 3. Your calculations don't account for the fact that many people will have some kind of armour. I always like to have the Chainmail Waistcoat, which gives +4EP. 4. There's a way to fight Kimah more easily without putting the Sommerswerd into safe keeping. Apart from the obvious benefit of improving your chances against Kimah, you can then save your normal Alether potion for the Chaos Master. I'd say some people know this trick here, but clearly it isn't common knowledge. I'm new here and don't want to violate board protocol, but presumably if I hide the text and label it as a spoiler then no-one will mind?
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Post by Omega M. on May 3, 2004 17:09:16 GMT
I don't recall The Prisoners of Time exactly, but can you get the Ironheart Broadsword if you have the Sommerswerd? If so, could you then use the Ironheart Broadsword against the Chaos-Master instead of the Sommerswerd, and thereby fight him at his weakest? Since the Ironheart Broadsword gives +8 to your Combat Skill, just as the Sommerswerd does, you wouldn't have to give up any of your own Combat Skill points to do this (assuming you have Weaponmastery in both Sword and Broadsword by then).
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Post by Vonotar on May 3, 2004 17:14:46 GMT
I don't recall The Prisoners of Time exactly, but can you get the Ironheart Broadsword if you have the Sommerswerd? Won't work I'm afraid. If you have the Sommerswerd, you won't find the secret chamber containing the Broadsword. You just get sent out onto the roof.
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Post by AlbinoChocobo on May 3, 2004 20:42:41 GMT
I know, armor is a matter of taste. I prefer to go for the leather vest at that point, it's more in character IMHO. Anyhow, the extra 4 EP don't change the outcome dramatically, hard is hard, easy is easy (2%->3%, 65%->76%). Supposing you complete the circles of Fire and Spirit ASAP (still best shot at victory), accounting for Leather Vest (personal favorite) [Chain Vest], using 'standard' Alether potions : - Zakhan Kimah => 72% / 11.4 EP [76%/12.8EP] - Chaosmaster => 68% / 11 EP [74% / 12EP] not actually necessary, he's not such a good shot ;D I totally agree with that. Plus I just forgot to save the darn potion I'm quite curious. I'm new here as well, but local etiquette seems to accept 'hidden' spoilers (I've seen a few).
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Post by Ghost Bear on May 3, 2004 21:05:54 GMT
You can take the Chainmail and the Padded Leather Armour if you like, for a cumalative bonus of +6EP.
-GB
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Post by Vonotar on May 3, 2004 21:44:30 GMT
You can take the Chainmail and the Padded Leather Armour if you like, for a cumalative bonus of +6EP. -GB Yes, and according to the description of the Kagonite Chainmail in Book 12, you could wear that with both of the others! That seemed a bit much, so I generally replaced one set of armour with the Kagonite.
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Post by Ghost Bear on May 3, 2004 22:55:15 GMT
I'm fairly sure it was clarified someplace that you can't wear the chainmail with the kagonite. Not sure about the Bronin Vest though...
-GB
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Post by Vonotar on May 3, 2004 23:27:59 GMT
Section 159 of MoD (online) has a footnote:
The Bronin Vest may be worn with a Padded Leather Waistcoat, but not with a Chainmail Waistcoat.
Section 63 of MoD has the passage:
Wearing this Kagonite Chainmail beneath your tunic will increase your COMBAT SKILL by 3 points and your ENDURANCE by 1 point. Because it is so light, it can be worn beneath any padded or metallic body armour you may possess.
It's possible that they only intended the Kagonite Chainmail to be used with either padded or metallic armour, but not both, and this is the interpretation I have chosen.
Assuming my interpretation is correct, then you can wear one type of metallic armour (Bronin Vest or Chainmail Waistcoat), plus one type of lighter armour (Padded Leather Waistcoat or Kagonite Chainmail). This seems pretty reasonable to me.
Of course you can only keep most sets of armour for the duration of MoD. The Grandmaster series only permits you to wear the Kagonite Chainmail. This seems a bit harsh, since you depend on a random number to get it, and completing the other books actually reduces your chances of getting it!
And isn't it strange that the Silver Bracers that come with the Bronin Vest are on the list of approved Special Items in book 13, but the Bronin Vest itself is not?
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Post by Vonotar on May 3, 2004 23:56:15 GMT
I'm quite curious. I'm new here as well, but local etiquette seems to accept 'hidden' spoilers (I've seen a few). I've posted the solution on a new thread. Sounds like you've just finished Book 7, so give it a go when you ge to it!
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Post by Omega M. on May 5, 2004 18:40:26 GMT
If I have the Bronin Vest but not the Kagonite Chainmail when going into the Grand Master series, I let myself keep the Vest. It's no more powerful than the Chainmail, and I don't think the Chainmail is ever mentioned by name in the Grand Master series, so what's the difference?
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Post by Relenoir on May 6, 2004 3:25:28 GMT
I agree, and the Silver Bracers move in and out of the "valid items list". The difference is, there really isn't one. I think this may have been to prevent people from using both items in combination, for a total of +6CS. I would probably use the Bronin one if I didn't get the Kagonite, although in this instance I am usually fortunate enough to roll badly enough to get it.
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