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Post by Black Cat on Aug 12, 2021 15:35:42 GMT
The thread of "Hero with a sword facing a bad guy" continues with the new Italian cover for book 21!   |
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Aug 12, 2021 18:44:13 GMT
Lol. Nice cover though - not as cool as the spidership, but the best spider for 21.
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 12, 2021 20:45:23 GMT
Did you notice that the Italian version by Vincent Books has a slightly different title than the first edition? One is "Pietra Della Luna" and the other one is "Pietra Di Luna"...  EDIT: That made me wonder: are there any other LW books that got a different title between the Edizioni EL version and the Vincent Books version? Well, most of the GM books have a different title! 3- Negli Abissi Di Kaltenland (EL) vs Gli Abissi Di Kalte (Vincent) link12- Scontro Mortale (EL) vs Sfida Alle Tenebre (Vincent) link13- Contagio Mortale (EL) vs I Signori Della Pestilenza Di Ruel (Vincent) link14- Il Prigioniero Di Kaag (EL) vs Il Prigionieri Di Kaag (Vincent) link15- La Crociata Della Morte (EL) vs La Crociata Di Darke (Vincent) link16- Il Ritorno Di Vashna (EL) vs Il Retaggio Di Vashna (Vincent) link17- Il Signore Di Ixia (EL) vs Il Signore Della Morte Di Ixia (Vincent) link19- Il Destino Del Lupo (EL) vs Il Flagello Del Lupo (Vincent) link20- L'Ira Di Naar (EL) vs La Maledizione Di Naar (Vincent) link21- Il Viaggio Della Pietra Di Luna (EL) vs Il Viaggio Della Pietra Della Luna(Vincent) link24- Runa Di Guerra (EL) vs La Guerra Delle Rune (Vincent) link25- Il Sentiero Del Lupo (EL) vs Sulle Tracce Del Lupo (Vincent) link26- La Montagna Insanguinata (EL) vs Il Crollo Della Montagna Di Sangue (Vincent) link27- L'Artiglio Di Naar (EL) vs Vampirium (Vincent) link28- La Vendetta Di Sejanoz (EL) vs La Brama Di Sejanoz (Vincent) link |
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Post by gdv82 on Aug 13, 2021 9:53:43 GMT
Almost all of the translations from the Vincent books are direct translations from their english original counterparts, the original ones from EL where a little more "fanciful"... (I had the original "Fire on the Water" and it was titled "Traversata Infernale", that would be a translation more suitable for "Hellish Crossing", "Infernal Crossing" or "Infernal Passage", don't ask me why it wasn't translated to "Fuoco sull'Acqua")
Book 3 is a little of, the most direct translation of "Caverns" would be "Caverne" while "Abissi" is "Abysses", but I must say that, in italian, "Gli Abissi di Kalte" sounds a lot better then "Le Caverne di Kalte"
Book 12 is still a little far from a direct translation, that would end up something like "I Signori delle Tenebre" (it's quite interesting to note that this title was used for the first book, "Flight From the Dark", so it probably couldn't have been used here in Italy without generating A LOT of confusion... Had the first book been more closely translated to "Fuga dall'Oscurita" or "Fuga dalle Tenebre" we would probably have had the most direct translation "I Signori delle Tenebre" for Book 12)
Don't even get me started on how "Kai" was translated to "Ramas", or how we got "Oberon" instead of "Grey Star" (even though on this one, I must admit that the direct translation "Stella Grigia" sounds a lot awful in comparison)
This problem with translations, however, was a trend here in Italy especially in the 80's, when we had some movies titles that were so off from the original translation they could have been completely diffferent movies (just as an example, "Dead Poets Society" was translated to "L'Attimo Fuggente", that would habe been "The Vanishing Moment")... This was mainly due to translators believing the original titles would have attracted less customers...
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Post by palarran on Aug 13, 2021 15:59:42 GMT
It’s somewhat similar with the German translation if we look at the old Goldman editions from the eighties and the new ones from Mantikore:
3 – The Caverns of Kalte Goldmann: Gefahr in den Höhlen (Peril in the Caves) Mantikore: Die Grotten von Kulde 4 – The Chasm of Doom Goldmann: Schlacht über den Gräbern (Battle above the Graves) Mantikore: Die Schlucht des Schicksals 5 – Shadow on the Sand Goldmann: Das Buch der Magnakai (The Book of the Magnakai) Mantikore: Die Schatten der Wüste (The Shadows of the Desert) 6 – The Kingdoms of Terror Goldmann: Königreich des Schreckens (Kingdom of Terror) Mantikore: Die Königreiche des Schreckens 7 – Castle DeathGoldmann: Das Schloss des Todes (The Castle/Palace of Death) Mantikore: Schloss des Todes 9 – Cauldron of FearGoldmann: Der Dämonenkessel (The Demon Cauldron) Mantikore: Die Ruinen von Zaaryx (The Ruins of Zaaryx)
For the other six books we have identical, literal translations of the original titles. As for the Greystar series, we have: Goldmann: Silberstern der Magier (Silver Star the Magician) Mantikore: Greystar 1 – Grey Star the WizardGoldmann: Der Hexenkönig (The Witch King) Mantikore: Der junge Magier (The Young Magician) 2 – The Forbidden CityGoldmann & Mantikore: Die verbotene Stadt (The Forbidden City) 3 – Beyond the Nightmare GateGoldmann & Mantikore: Hinter dem Schattentor (Behind the Shadow Gate) 4 – War of the WizardsGoldmann: Krieg der Zauberer (War of the Wizards) Mantikore: Der Krieg der Magier (The War of the Magicians) Grey Star (the character) is “Silberstern” in both versions. I think this sounds a lot better than “Graustern” or “Grauer Stern”, which would rather imply an old man. Maybe they could have gone with “Stella Silva” or “Silvastella” in Italian too? On the other hand, this might imply a woman.
Well, you know what they say: If it was easy, anyone could do it! |
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 13, 2021 16:41:16 GMT
Almost all of the translations from the Vincent books are direct translations from their english original counterparts, the original ones from EL where a little more "fanciful"... (I had the original "Fire on the Water" and it was titled "Traversata Infernale", that would be a translation more suitable for "Hellish Crossing", "Infernal Crossing" or "Infernal Passage", don't ask me why it wasn't translated to "Fuoco sull'Acqua") Book 12 is still a little far from a direct translation, that would end up something like "I Signori delle Tenebre" (it's quite interesting to note that this title was used for the first book, "Flight From the Dark", so it probably couldn't have been used here in Italy without generating A LOT of confusion... Had the first book been more closely translated to "Fuga dall'Oscurita" or "Fuga dalle Tenebre" we would probably have had the most direct translation "I Signori delle Tenebre" for Book 12) They did the same thing in French: first book could be translated as The Masters of Darkness, so the 12th one got a different title than in English which could be translated as Dusk of the Masters. Strangely, book 2 in French has the same title than in Italian: La Traversée infernale! |
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 14, 2021 15:46:57 GMT
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Aug 14, 2021 20:51:54 GMT
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Ixia
Kai Lord
Posts: 42 
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Post by Ixia on Oct 12, 2021 3:07:48 GMT
This thread is unbelievable! I can’t stop coming back again and again to see those covers. Incredible research! About The Caverns of Kalte last Gallimard cover, you’ve written this: *** Third row starts off with what as far as I know is the last of the later Gallimard reprints until book 29, once again with a Baknar. It's pretty cool, and my fave of the Baknar covers. *** I’m reading this edition right now. I believe that cover represents a Kalkoth, and not a Baknar. The red eyes and more importantly the tongue seems to me to be attributes of a Kalkoth. Here’s a description of a Kalkoth in section 180 that looks exactly like what’s happening on the Gallimard cover: *** It leaps at you, its red eyes glowering and its fanged mouth open to reveal a long barbed tongue, lashing towards your face. *** And in section 147, we actually see a drawing of a Kalkoth that looks a bit like the Gallimard cover. www.projectaon.org/en/xhtml/lw/03tcok/sect147.htmHope it helps! |
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Post by Ofecks on Oct 12, 2021 19:14:36 GMT
Book thirteen: Pacer have Lone Wolf up against the Dholdaarg, it's ok. Is that what that is? The lighting throws me off 'cause that event happens in a cavern. It'd be really ironic if Pacer chose that scene for the cover considering it's the abridged NA edition which completely removes the path that it's from (you're forced to go through the forest to get to Mogaruith). Abridged versions of already-linear gamebooks... what the hell were they thinking? Still angers me to this day. |
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Post by Black Cat on Oct 20, 2021 4:47:21 GMT
I don't know if you'll think this is relevant but I've just realized something regarding some covers: Gallimard started publishing the Lone Wolf series in 1985. The first book, 'Les Maîtres des Ténèbres' (French title of 'Flight from the Dark'), used this cover: linkI repeat: it was first used by the French publisher in 1985! And then Red Fox used this in... 1990! linkIt is the same thing for the subsequent books up to book 7: Gallimard used covers that were then used by Red Fox. So, lorddarkstorm, I was wondering if you were going to modify your list with the covers of the French edition where Red Fox copied their covers? If you are going to complain about a cover, you should also complain about the publisher responsible for it (or give them praises). |
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Oct 20, 2021 15:17:35 GMT
This thread is unbelievable! I can’t stop coming back again and again to see those covers. Incredible research! About The Caverns of Kalte last Gallimard cover, you’ve written this: *** Third row starts off with what as far as I know is the last of the later Gallimard reprints until book 29, once again with a Baknar. It's pretty cool, and my fave of the Baknar covers. *** I’m reading this edition right now. I believe that cover represents a Kalkoth, and not a Baknar. The red eyes and more importantly the tongue seems to me to be attributes of a Kalkoth. Here’s a description of a Kalkoth in section 180 that looks exactly like what’s happening on the Gallimard cover: *** It leaps at you, its red eyes glowering and its fanged mouth open to reveal a long barbed tongue, lashing towards your face. *** And in section 147, we actually see a drawing of a Kalkoth that looks a bit like the Gallimard cover. www.projectaon.org/en/xhtml/lw/03tcok/sect147.htmHope it helps! Hiya, thanks.  The thing that made me lean more to the Baknar is that the background is outside, and I think the Kalkoth was met in the cavern just before the frostwyrm. However the barbed tongue clinches it, I thought that was drool before, but I downloaded a HD version of the cover from Gallimard it's a mixture of drool and spikes - you're quite right, so I guess the background was artistic license. Will edit the OP in a bit, thanks. Book thirteen: Pacer have Lone Wolf up against the Dholdaarg, it's ok. Is that what that is? The lighting throws me off 'cause that event happens in a cavern. It'd be really ironic if Pacer chose that scene for the cover considering it's the abridged NA edition which completely removes the path that it's from (you're forced to go through the forest to get to Mogaruith). Abridged versions of already-linear gamebooks... what the hell were they thinking? Still angers me to this day. Woah, can't believe that! More "chose my adventure" then "chose your own adventure". Dholdaarg battle was in a underground lake with a drawbridge right? And we can see the drawbridge above, so I assumed it was the Dholdaarg as that matched and it also looks fairly close to the internal illustration. I don't know if you'll think this is relevant but I've just realized something regarding some covers: Gallimard started publishing the Lone Wolf series in 1985. The first book, 'Les Maîtres des Ténèbres' (French title of 'Flight from the Dark'), used this cover: linkI repeat: it was first used by the French publisher in 1985! And then Red Fox used this in... 1990! linkIt is the same thing for the subsequent books up to book 7: Gallimard used covers that were then used by Red Fox. So, lorddarkstorm, I was wondering if you were going to modify your list with the covers of the French edition where Red Fox copied their covers? If you are going to complain about a cover, you should also complain about the publisher responsible for it (or give them praises). Yep, I found this out when I was researching the cover artists - PAJ mentions this on his site. If you check book two in the original post, I had put a note about this there: Finally we have an interesting one - this is the original Gallimard art, done by my favourite LW artist Peter Andrew Jones, who did the Red Fox covers for 1-20, and Edizioni EL for 21-26. I mostly miss out the early French covers as they also use the Red Fox art, but it's interesting to note that it was Gallimard who brought Peter Andrew Jones into Lone Wolf, and they continued to use them through to book 7. He mentions on his site elsewhere that Joe Dever loved the Gallimard covers and so brought him onboard for the UK ones. I do wonder why Gallimard stopped using him, since as we'll get to later, their art from book 8 onwards leaves a *lot* to be desired. PAJ made a comment on his site that back then, he once called Gallimard with a query and was surprised to have a British person answer the phone, so I wonder if that person knew his work and was the one who originally recommended him (Gallimard approached him to do the covers), and perhaps later left the company leading to the change in artist. That's all total speculation though. Anyway, the reason I put the French art here even though it's normally the same as the Red Fox books for 1-8 is because here it is actually a bit different - it kind of looks like an unfinished version of the Red Fox one. I wonder if there was a tight deadline here?I might go back & add the other early gallimard ones, as they all have small differences to the Red Fox ones (though the others are not as big as 2). When I was first composing the images, it was taking me so long I didn't want to add ones with such small differences, but it's easier to go back and just add 6 now. |
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Post by Ofecks on Oct 20, 2021 17:19:49 GMT
Dholdaarg battle was in a underground lake with a drawbridge right? And we can see the drawbridge above, so I assumed it was the Dholdaarg as that matched and it also looks fairly close to the internal illustration. That's correct, it's underground. But look at all the light coming from the left side of the cover art. That makes it appear to take place outdoors, like the moat of a castle or something. |
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Post by Black Cat on Oct 20, 2021 17:21:32 GMT
Yep, I found this out when I was researching the cover artists - PAJ mentions this on his site. If you check book two in the original post, I had put a note about this there Sorry, I didn't check your comments for book 2, I only checked for book 1 where you didn't mention that the Red Fox cover was originally from Gallimard. That's why I think you should replace the Red Fox covers by the original Gallimard because they were the first one to use these covers. But it's just a suggestion... |
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Oct 20, 2021 17:46:59 GMT
That's correct, it's underground. But look at all the light coming from the left side of the cover art. That makes it appear to take place outdoors, like the moat of a castle or something. Just checked the book: 244
Slowly you advance towards the shimmering lights and, as the tunnel begins to level off in the distance, you see that it opens out into a huge cave. The shimmering is caused by a line of glowing beacons hung by chains from the vault-like ceiling of the cave. Their warm amber light is reflecting upon the cold dark waters of a lake.So looks like the cavern is very well lit. Yep, I found this out when I was researching the cover artists - PAJ mentions this on his site. If you check book two in the original post, I had put a note about this there Sorry, I didn't check your comments for book 2, I only checked for book 1 where you didn't mention that the Red Fox cover was originally from Gallimard. That's why I think you should replace the Red Fox covers by the original Gallimard because they were the first one to use these covers. But it's just a suggestion... Yeah, if I have some time this weekend I'll add them. |
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