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Post by Black Cat on Feb 2, 2022 17:43:00 GMT
Aon project had all the saga rights. Now it had not anymore in the books written by Ben Devere to finish the saga. Nope, PA had the rights for the books published and WRITTEN by Joe Dever up to book 28, not the whole saga (up to 32). Joe accepted to give the permission to publish book 29 AFTER physical copies were sold out (and he could had decided not to give the permission if he had wanted to). Now, books 30 to 32 are not written by Joe but by Ben and Vincent Lazzari. And so, these three books are not covered by the PA License because A: they are not parts of the original series (1 to 28) and B: they are not written by Joe Dever. I'm just pointing out that your affirmation that Ben did not respect the agreement between Joe and PA is wrong. Commercial reasons? of course. But no commercial reasons prevent LW to go on during years until this moment. I'm not sure what you are talking about here... It is as if you say that because of Project Aon, Lone Wolf got even more popular without the help of commercial publishers and that if the series is getting republished, it will mark the end of its popularity. On the contrary, without some commercial publishers at the beginning of the 2000s, the series would had not found a new fanbase. Of course, in the English-speaking world, there was a hiatus of publication for the LW gamebook series between 1998 and 2007. But in France and Italy, the series was still published during that period. Just check around and look at how many members were from French-speaking countries (like myself) or Italy at the beginning of the PA forums, circa 2004. We came here because the wanted to talk about the series and read the original version of the books. Today, we see people coming from other countries like Sweden, Germany and even Spain, three countries where the series has been republished (or are about to be republished in the case of Spain). Also, in 2005, Mongoose Publishing launched its first version of the LW RPG, which renewed the interest in the gamebooks in the English-speaking world. This lead to the republication of the series in English in 2007. Without commercial publishers, this forum would had not been continuously as lively as it is over the last 18 years. Also, even if the series got republished in Italian and English, Project Aon still exists in both languages. So yes, commercial reasons didn't prevent Project Aon to continue existing but it also helped keeping an interest in this world. By the way, I am not particularly interested in books of 550 sections specially when they change essential elements from the original story. A little correction here: not "they" but "he". It was Joe Dever himself that changed book 1 and extended it to 550 sections in 2007 when Mongoose Publishing started the publication of the Collector's Editions. And it was Joe that decided to extend the book, not the publisher, as he mentionned it in interviews at that time that since he became a better writer over time, he thought that he could upgrade the story. The Definitive Editions by Holmgard Press is just the original version of 2007 with little corrections and additions but nothing that change the plot of that version.
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Post by anotherknight on Feb 2, 2022 17:53:31 GMT
I totally disagree. The last books are part from New Order and New Order books are part from the Aon Licence.I know that Joe Dever made these changes.- I am not thrilled. I liked the fact that Silent Wolf was saved at the Kai disaster because he was outside class as a penalty for being distracted. This detail and many more has been changed. Some people think that the best of a book is the cover, the hardback, the illustrations, the lenght. But they are not. The best thing is what it is written, specially when it is good and brief.
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Post by Draugohtar on Feb 2, 2022 18:02:37 GMT
Yes, you are right. I am not thrilled by the new definitive edition too.[/quote] What´s wrong with the new Edition?[/quote] In my case, just two points: I was counting on the Collector's Edition to at least be finished before starting with a new one. And second; having collected them so far to be told that, after all, a new edition with be the real definitive one with further changes along the way... I am not so sure about that. A second edition, revised of the already published? Why not. But having more editions is an editor choice: I understand both the wish to make the story better (as Tolkien did with a few of his editions) and the economical side of selling 32 books instead of the 2 lasts (and the risks of that venture). I would hope to see a Collector's Edition volume 32 alongside or even before the Definitive Edition one. I know the amount of work and love Ben and Co must have put in all their current planning and I am grateful for that, but I won't embark on this Definitive Edition (except for that extra rare Volume 15).
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Post by Black Cat on Feb 2, 2022 18:28:14 GMT
I totally disagree. The last books are part from New Order and New Order books are part from the Aon Licence. You clearly did not read article 1.4 of the Project Aon License... link It is a not each sub-series that is part of the License but each book individually.
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Post by pjagum on Feb 2, 2022 18:37:28 GMT
Yeah, I understand your point. A year ago I proposed that if a new Edition is launched atop the current one, it should be a leatherbound, like really old books. That would at least be a considerable improvement.
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Post by anotherknight on Feb 2, 2022 18:46:33 GMT
I totally disagree. The last books are part from New Order and New Order books are part from the Aon Licence. You clearly did not read article 1.4 of the Project Aon License... link It is a not each sub-series that is part of the License but each book individually. You clearly do not want to accept what it is obvious. quote author=" pjagum" source="/post/46829/thread" timestamp="1643827048"] Yeah, I understand your point. A year ago I proposed that if a new Edition is launched atop the current one, it should be a leatherbound, like really old books. That would at least be a considerable improvement. Right.
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Post by Black Cat on Feb 2, 2022 19:00:10 GMT
You clearly do not want to accept what it is obvious. Really? It is written black on white right in the link I gave, the proof that books 30 to 32 are not part of the License on the contrary of what you say and it is me that don't see what is obvious?!? I'm waiting for you to give official proof of what you say about the License and books 30 to 32. I'll wait.
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Post by anotherknight on Feb 2, 2022 19:29:45 GMT
I have read those lines and the others since I first did login Aon in 2009. And Joe Dever gave internet rights to Aon for ever. Very generous (and smart). Even in one of his last interviews reaffirms this fact with proud. And since he is no longer with us, his son breaks the moral agreement. A person who admitted being against the Magnamund world as a rebel son during a lot of years, that´s why he included an italian writer to assist him in the last books. (Very good fans in Italy, by the way). Well Black Cat, respect my opinion. I do think this is not a Ben´s good gesture.
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Post by jmisno1 on Feb 2, 2022 19:34:33 GMT
I have read those lines and the others since I first did login Aon in 2009. And Joe Dever gave internet rights to Aon for ever. Very generous (and smart). Even in one of his last interviews reaffirms this fact with proud. And since he is no longer with us, his son breaks the moral agreement. A person who admitted being against the Magnamund world as a rebel son during a lot of years, that´s why he included an italian writer to assist him in the last books. (Very good fans in Italy, by the way). Well Black Cat, respect my opinion. I do think this is not a Ben´s good gesture. Your are right that this is not a Ben´s good gesture but I tend to try and think the best about people I don't know, which is why I've convinced myself that he's not a bad person as such, rather he's so hopelessly misguided that he appears to be both a bad author and a bad guy even though he's niether
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Post by anotherknight on Feb 2, 2022 19:41:16 GMT
I have read those lines and the others since I first did login Aon in 2009. y I've convinced myself that he's not a bad person as such, rather he's so hopelessly misguided that he appears to be both a bad author and a bad guy even though he's niether Probably you are right. More misguided than bad.
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Post by Black Cat on Feb 2, 2022 20:01:55 GMT
I have read those lines and the others since I first did login Aon in 2009. And Joe Dever gave internet rights to Aon for ever. Very generous (and smart). Even in one of his last interviews reaffirms this fact with proud. And since he is no longer with us, his son breaks the moral agreement. A person who admitted being against the Magnamund world as a rebel son during a lot of years, that´s why he included an italian writer to assist him in the last books. (Very good fans in Italy, by the way). Well Black Cat, respect my opinion. I do think this is not a Ben´s good gesture. Opinions and facts are not the same thing. You don't agree that Ben publishes physical books of 30 to 32 and doesn't put them on Project Aon, that's okay. Saying Ben breaks the Project Aon License without proof because you think so, without facts, that's not an opinion, that's a libel. Dever gave the rights to Project Aon to publish his work that had been published at the time of the agreement in 1999 (which, at the time, did not include the books of the NO series, that came in 2005), not for all the work related to Lone Wolf (like the various RPGs or the Autumn Snow series). You wish for all the stuff to be made available for free on Project Aon, it's okay to dream but don't blame Ben if he doesn't want to because he has his own rights. And like I said in one of my earlier post, it's not because he wasn't interested in his father's work earlier that he doesn't want to make a good job now. People grow up and change over time. Adult Ben is not the same guy as Teen Ben just like you are probably not the same guy today as you were in your teen years. That's why he surrounded himself with people that know more than him about the world his father created so he could complete the saga in a good way. BTW, Vincent Lazzari is French (good fans in French-speaking countries too).
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Feb 2, 2022 20:10:26 GMT
Lone Wolf has done great with Ben & Vincent at the helm. Books 30 & 31 were excellent and I look forward to 32 & 28extended.
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Post by spartanroarke on Feb 2, 2022 20:31:53 GMT
Lone Wolf has done great with Ben & Vincent at the helm. Books 30 & 31 were excellent and I look forward to 32 & 28extended. Cheers to this. After Joe passed, the series could have gone unfinished, or Ben could have quickly churned out three low-quality books and called it a day. Instead we have two incredible books by talented people who care deeply about the LW world, and I have full faith that book 32 will conclude the saga in grand fashion. We are a truly fortunate fanbase.
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Post by anotherknight on Feb 2, 2022 21:49:24 GMT
I have read those lines and the others since I first did login Aon in 2009. And Joe Dever gave internet rights to Aon for ever. Very generous (and smart). Even in one of his last interviews reaffirms this fact with proud. And since he is no longer with us, his son breaks the moral agreement. A person who admitted being against the Magnamund world as a rebel son during a lot of years, that´s why he included an italian writer to assist him in the last books. (Very good fans in Italy, by the way). Well Black Cat, respect my opinion. I do think this is not a Ben´s good gesture. Opinions and facts are not the same thing. You don't agree that Ben publishes physical books of 30 to 32 and doesn't put them on Project Aon, that's okay. Saying Ben breaks the Project Aon License without proof because you think so, without facts, that's not an opinion, that's a libel. Dever gave the rights to Project Aon to publish his work that had been published at the time . Italian origin, anyway. Well, the fact is that The Storms of Chai is a book published in 2015, much later the time you wrongly said in all your boring disertation about all what we know for sure. So, Dever went on with the agreement until his death. That agreement is broken by his son. What is really unsound. Because almost all the books in the world got a digital pirate copy. The Ben´s sequels won´t be an exception. I´m afraid. And at least, the chance to read it online would be legit and protected by the fans, who go on buying the physical books anyway, it does not matter they are published online or not. You know all those facts. And my opinion is not "extravagant or a libel as you rudely has dared to say. And for this reason this is my the last answer to you.
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Post by Black Cat on Feb 2, 2022 23:48:17 GMT
Well, the fact is that The Storms of Chai is a book published in 2015, much later the time you wrongly said in all your boring disertation about all what we know for sure. So, Dever went on with the agreement until his death. Thanks for bringing up that The Storms of Chai is on Project Aon: the book was published in 2015 in physical form in Italian (2016 in English). Dever died in 2016. Three years later, in July 2019, Project Aon was given permission to publish the book. The book was published on Project Aon in January 2020. Guess who gave the permission? Ben, not Joe: link And so, Joe gave his permission for his work up to 1998 to be published on Project Aon, and Ben gave his own permission for books 29, his father's last gamebook, to be published on PA in 2019. It doesn't contradict what I've mentionned about Joe's agreement with PA as he is not the one who gave the permission for book 29. Sorry that you feel that way. I respect the various opinions of people on these boards. What I don't tolerate are people making statements and presenting them as true facts without any proof. This whole discussion started when you said that Ben broke the Project Aon License by not allowing the publication of book 30 to 32 on Project Aon without being able to prove your point, even going to say that Joe gave his permission for the whole saga to be put on Project Aon, again without proof. And yes, that's libel according to the Merriam-Webster dictionnary, sorry to put it that way ( link). I was just trying to point out that what you present as facts are not by presenting official proofs. You don't like it and think it's boring, that's okay, that's opinion. But it doesn't change facts.
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