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Post by Black Cat on Aug 30, 2022 3:28:25 GMT
It's been a while that this idea has been running in my head but I always thought that someone else will probably do it before I get the time to do it myself. Well, it has not been done yet and now I have the time so here we go. I want to make a list of all the changes that has been done to the books in the new Definitive Edition versus the original books from the 80s*. But I'll need your help: I only have book 1 DE (in French) and I don't plan to buy the rest of the DEs in the near future (I'll complete my CE collection first, with only 28 and 32 currently missing). So I'll get the ball rolling with the changes that I've found in book 1 and you'll post what you will find in the subsequent books so that I can update the list below. Needless to say, there will be spoilers in this thread, so read at your own risk! *Two exceptions: book 1 DE is an updated version of the extended version first published in 2007 so yeah, the whole book is different from the original one of the 80s. Book 28 DE will also be an updated version of the extended version that will be first published in a few weeks. In both cases, we will compare the DE with its CE counterpart. RULES (All books)Alternate rules- CS and EP scores: Instead of picking one number on the RNT for your CS score and another one for your EP score, pick three numbers and decide which one you will use for the statistic of your choice (i.e.: you've picked 8, 3 and 9, in that order, and you decide to put 9 to your CS score and 8 to your EP, ignoring the 3)
- Sommerswerd: you can decide to use the SS only in sections where the sword is mentionned.
- Sommerswerd: you have the option to reduce the CS bonus granted by the SS to only 4 (instead of 8) for the duration of the Kai series (books 2 to 5) and 6 for the Magnakai series (books 6 to 12). For the Grand Master series, you can use the full bonus of the SS.
BOOK 1: FLIGHT FROM THE DARK (Extended version)- Section 94: The Helghast Dagger now gives a bonus of 2 CS for the final battle.
- Section 131: There is now a Leather Waistcoat available to pick up (+1 EP)
- Section 173: Added the possibility to turn to section 180, depending of the results on the RNT.
- Section 180: Brand new section that replaces the original one. Originally only reachable by going through section 22, it was totally unrelated to the events described in that section. It is now related and can also be reached by going through section 173.
- Sections 223 and 412: You can now add 1 if you have Mind Over Matter to the number picked on the RNT.
- Section 279: in the Mongoose version, Kai Master Star Fire uses the power word ‘Gloar’ to help Silent Wolf… which is impossible since that power word is learned with the Grand Discipline of Magi-magic! All Grand Disciplines don’t exist in MS 5050 as it was Lone Wolf that created them once he reached the rank of Grand Master and have collected all the Lorestones. In the newest version, Star Fire uses Nexus.
- Section 381: there is now a Potion of Alether and a Short Sword available to pick up along with the other stuff. The Quarterstaff has been removed
- Section 414: Prices have changed for the Helmet, Sword, Chainmail Waistcoat and Broadsword.
- Section 431: You get a bonus of 2 CS for the duration of the fight. In the Mongoose version, it was only for the first round.
- Section 447: A Kai Shield (+2CS, Special Item) has been added to the things available.
- The Crystal Star Pendant now has a power: once per adventure, if you are not satisfy with a number you’ve picked on the RNT, you can ignore that number and pick another one.
If you find any new differences, please share it below so I could add it to the list. |
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Aug 30, 2022 16:27:19 GMT
I don't really have the space to get the new DE's (aside from book one which I could just about justify as it also had new internal illustrations), so I would also be very interested in a running tally of changes. Otherwise I have to wait for the ebook versions  |
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Post by Ofecks on Aug 30, 2022 19:46:10 GMT
Woa, thanks for doing this. Very interested to see the changes. I haven't bought any DEs, but I might consider the paperbacks or e-books once those are out.
I've heard book 2 has some new rules regarding The Sommerswerd.
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Post by Oiseau on Aug 31, 2022 1:30:44 GMT
They're more like additional play options, listed in an appendix at the end. You can play the original way; you can also limit use of the Sommerswerd to sections where the text mentions it. There is also an option to reduce its combat bonus to +4 for the Kai series, +6 for Magnakai, and +8 thereafter. Basically, they're various house rules which got canonized.
There's also a thing in the beginning where you can choose to pick three numbers and assign them to CS, EP and Gold, thus increasing your average initial CS.
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 31, 2022 2:27:54 GMT
I've updated the first post with what Oiseau mentionned except... There is also an option to reduce its combat bonus to +4 for the Kai series, +6 for Magnakai, and +8 thereafter. Basically, they're various house rules which got canonized. Since only the Kai series has been released so far, do they mention the stats change for the Magnakai and GM series? |
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Post by palarran on Aug 31, 2022 13:16:23 GMT
RULES (All books)Alternate rules- CS, EP and Gold Crowns: Instead of picking one number on the RNT for your CS score, another one for your EP score and a last one for your Gold Crowns, pick three numbers and assign each one of them to the statistic of your choice (i.e.: you've picked 8, 3 and 9, in that order, and you decide to put 9 to your CS score, 8 to your EP and 3 to your Gold Crowns)
I don't know if this is a misunderstanding or a difference between versions, but in the English DE the optional rule is to pick three numbers on the RNT and then assign two of them to CS and EP, ignoring the third. For Gold Crowns, there is an additional, independent roll later on. |
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Post by palarran on Aug 31, 2022 13:17:03 GMT
I've updated the first post with what Oiseau mentionned except... There is also an option to reduce its combat bonus to +4 for the Kai series, +6 for Magnakai, and +8 thereafter. Basically, they're various house rules which got canonized. Since only the Kai series has been released so far, do they mention the stats change for the Magnakai and GM series?
They do so in the English version.
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 31, 2022 13:24:52 GMT
Thanks Palarran, update has been done.
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Post by palarran on Aug 31, 2022 13:55:58 GMT
A note about Section 381: You no longer get to take a Quarterstaff, as it has been replaced by the Short Sword.
Section 447: You can take a Kai Shield from the armory (Special Item, CS+2 when used in combat, with any weapon).
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 31, 2022 23:09:35 GMT
A note about Section 381: You no longer get to take a Quarterstaff, as it has been replaced by the Short Sword. Section 447: You can take a Kai Shield from the armory (Special Item, CS+2 when used in combat, with any weapon).
Thanks! The list has been updated! |
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Post by kraanlord on May 14, 2023 8:36:13 GMT
A very good improvement is the option to limit the healing capacity to only 10 per book. With such a rule New Order Books approach is similar to first Lone Wolf gamebooks. I was always wondering why lone wolf has unlimited healing abilities. Could be come frome the gods or he has god like skills. In my opinion it's better balanced now in Definitive editions in opposite to the variants of the Sommerswerd reductions.
CS reduction is also interesting but could be difficult later with Zakan Kimah or Chaos Master. Lets wait for those books (definitive edition) if there will be a work around. Could be similar to book 1 and 2 where a CS improvement was possible in Helghast fights.
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Post by kraanlord on May 14, 2023 13:52:54 GMT
I have noticed a lot of small but important changes also in following books.
Example is the instant death in section 197 of book 2. With hunting I am now able to avoid this instant death situation.
In section 106 the magic spear grants a bonus of +2 against Helghast.
And the biggest advantage is of course the talisman of the brotherhood. I can avoid a bad dice result by picking again a random number. This will improve situations with instant death and random number table.
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Post by kraanlord on May 16, 2023 6:55:48 GMT
In book 3 there are also adjustments which improve the lone wolf saga.
Here we can avoid the annoying instant death in section 94 if we have applied Baknar oil.
Until now all those small changes are very usefull. Especially Instant death scenarios has been improved.
I'm still hoping that we have also some improvements later in the upcoming books like Zakhan Kimah fight and Chaos Master fight.
The most annoying part for me was always in book 12 to get the Kagonite chainmail which is very useful. I have to pick a random number in section 209. It is very difficult to get a low result. All Magnakai skills will make it more difficult to get a low dice result. Only with a low result I'm able to get later the Kagonite chainmail. This means I will be punished when I have achieved previous books. I hope this will be improved in definitive editions.
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Post by Black Cat on May 16, 2023 12:59:49 GMT
The most annoying part for me was always in book 12 to get the Kagonite chainmail which is very useful. I have to pick a random number in section 209. It is very difficult to get a low result. All Magnakai skills will make it more difficult to get a low dice result. Only with a low result I'm able to get later the Kagonite chainmail. This means I will be punished when I have achieved previous books. I hope this will be improved in definitive editions. It's not punishment, it's more like giving a chance to players who have not played all the other books to get something that will actually help them get to the end of the adventure. A veteran player doesn't really need the Kagonite Chainmail at that point. |
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Post by kraanlord on May 16, 2023 13:27:10 GMT
I don't agree to your statement. I've been playing since the 80th such gamebooks. And it's always a great motivation for the players to find extraordinary items or equipment.
I'm always excited to get better weapons like Jewelled Mace or Bronin Vest or Helshezag or only Magic Spear. And anyway - we have to face later Ixiataaga and some difficult enemies in those book. What I really don't like are impossible situations or cheating.
If there is no change on Definitive Edition with the mentioned section I would use the Amulet of the Brotherhood to get a 2.random number which should be a low number here. This means: Hopefully I have bad luck.
And this workaround we should avoid.
It's exactly the improved items which shine in DE of Lone Wolf books. The editors of DE have done a great job. Example: Jewelled Mace in book 5 grants now +1 bonus to normal fights and +3 against summoned enemies. Those small changes (will it be useful or not) brings a lot of motivation. It's good not to use always Alether or Laumspur potions. And Kagonite chainmail is also part of the great story so far.
Lone Wolf was also supposed to wear better armor in later adventures - not the old saggy, rusty mail and holey leather waistcoat
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