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Post by swiftstryke on Aug 1, 2004 3:11:03 GMT
Here is my question. Assuming that all events in the gamebooks are regarded as canon for the series and that the Legends series is just an "alternate" version of Lone Wolf, what is the accepted fact for the following:
1. Was Vonotar always old, or did he start out young like the Legends? (Assuming that Alyss is not present at the monastery's destruction, even though she shows up in the later books...why?)
2. Did Vonotar kill Storm Hawk? If so, how? (We know Storm Hawk is "real" as he is mentioned in book 18)
3. In Legends, Lone Wolf is a lazy student, but in FFtD, he is skilled in 5 of 10 disciplines...not very lazy to me! What do you all think?
4. Are Vonotar and Zagarna even present at the Massacre? Who is it that attacks Toran? (We "see" Toran burning in book one...there is a small illustration of a column if smoke...)
That's all I can think of right now. Anyone have any answers? Please only use what is known from the gamebooks and the newsletters and for the moment, disregard the Legends series...
-- Swift Stryke
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Waiting On Password
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Post by Waiting On Password on Aug 1, 2004 3:49:28 GMT
Here is my question. Assuming that all events in the gamebooks are regarded as canon for the series and that the Legends series is just an "alternate" version of Lone Wolf, what is the accepted fact for the following: 1. Was Vonotar always old, or did he start out young like the Legends? (Assuming that Alyss is not present at the monastery's destruction, even though she shows up in the later books...why?) 2. Did Vonotar kill Storm Hawk? If so, how? (We know Storm Hawk is "real" as he is mentioned in book 18) 3. In Legends, Lone Wolf is a lazy student, but in FFtD, he is skilled in 5 of 10 disciplines...not very lazy to me! What do you all think? 4. Are Vonotar and Zagarna even present at the Massacre? Who is it that attacks Toran? (We "see" Toran burning in book one...there is a small illustration of a column if smoke...) That's all I can think of right now. Anyone have any answers? Please only use what is known from the gamebooks and the newsletters and for the moment, disregard the Legends series... -- Swift Stryke 1) I would assume that Vonotar wasn't always old, unless he was born that way. 2) I would assume that Vonotar probably did kill Storm Hawk, however, given that he is not credited with his death in the gamebooks, I cannot say for sure. 3) I would put that down to Lone Wolf being flighty, ie: he is a skilled warrior, but, for whatever reason, finds it hard to motivate himself. 4) I would presume that Vonotar and Zagarna are at the massacre, if only because it is a given that the evil geniuses always watch their handiwork unfold.
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Post by swiftstryke on Aug 1, 2004 3:56:19 GMT
I meant was he magically aged, or was his age due to the natural progression of things. Sorry...I wasn't clear.
If Zagarna and Vonotar are at the Massacre, why is Lone Wolf able to sift through the rubble to find money, and Axe and a Map? Wouldn't he be spotted as he is searching through the wreckage?
Also, in Legends Banedon is waylaid on his mission. I know in the Companion you play as Banedon on his mission, but there is no mention of Daron and Thelda (I think...). Why is Banedon so late? Or is it because the attack happened so fast...?
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Waiting On Password
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Post by Waiting On Password on Aug 1, 2004 4:01:47 GMT
I meant was he magically aged, or was his age due to the natural progression of things. Sorry...I wasn't clear. If Zagarna and Vonotar are at the Massacre, why is Lone Wolf able to sift through the rubble to find money, and Axe and a Map? Wouldn't he be spotted as he is searching through the wreckage? quote] I would put Vonotar's aging down to, presumably, Alyss, and that, for some reason, it just didn't get mentioned in the gamebooks. Zagarna and Vonotar left because it is a truism of all heroic tales that the bad guys walk off when they assume that their plan has worked to perfection, only for a survivor to appear in the rubble, who will then go on to thwart their plans.
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Post by Sarra on Aug 1, 2004 4:19:22 GMT
According to the Legends series when Lone Wolf regained consciousness Vonotar and Zagarna where already on their way to Toran.
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Post by outspaced on Aug 1, 2004 9:53:38 GMT
3. In Legends, Lone Wolf is a lazy student, but in FFtD, he is skilled in 5 of 10 disciplines...not very lazy to me! What do you all think? You're forgetting that the author of the Legends series didn't like the character of Lone Wolf. He tried his best to discredit him by making him lazy, insensitive, useless, and whiny whilst making every other character on Magnamund (Grant/Barnett: "preferably annoying, unpleasant female ones") a far better choice for saving the world. Since Lone Wolf had been sent out to collect firewood (which doesn't happen in the Legends), I'd agree with "Waiting on Password"'s opinion that Lone Wolf is unmotivated. He went to the Monastery when he was 6, yet by the time he's 15 he's still only mastered 5 of the basic Disciplines. He's obviously a capable fighter, but he must in some ways be lax in his studies. That's the impression I get from Flight from the Dark.
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Post by outspaced on Aug 1, 2004 10:00:50 GMT
Also, in Legends Banedon is waylaid on his mission. I know in the Companion you play as Banedon on his mission, but there is no mention of Daron and Thelda (I think...). Why is Banedon so late? Or is it because the attack happened so fast...? Daron and Thelda are mentioned in Dawn of the Darklords, the solo gamebook found in the Magnamund Companion (cf. section #6). I believe it is possible to find Lone Wolf without meeting them, but Joe Dever designed the outlines of the Legends (though not the awful characters like Alyss and Q******), so he would have told the author to write about Banedon using that particular route so that he definitely met the kids and their family. As for arriving late, it's partly because of the speed of Zagarna's attack, but also because Banedon gets ambushed (again, cf. Section #6) and lost in the forest, ending up in the ruins of Raumas Temple, where the fateful meeting with Lone Wolf finally occurs. Hope it helps!
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Post by BenKenobi on Aug 1, 2004 14:47:54 GMT
4. Are Vonotar and Zagarna even present at the Massacre? Who is it that attacks Toran? (We "see" Toran burning in book one...there is a small illustration of a column if smoke...) We see in n.2 - Fire on the Water - that Zagarna himself leads his army during the siege of Holmgard; this can be the proof that Zagarna was at the head of the military forces, leading the main attacks against the Kai Monastery, Toran, and Holmgard. In the same book we see that Vonotar, too, is around there; it isn't impossible to find him at the Massacre of the Kai with Zagarna.
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Post by Ghost Bear on Aug 1, 2004 16:41:46 GMT
I would suggest that they weren't there. The attack on the Monastery was from the air, if memory serves. A force of Kraan riders that big probably flew in from beyond the Durncrag mountains, and since Zagarna was probably leading the march on Holmgard, he more than likely wasn't there.
I doubt Vonatar was there, because he doesn't strike me as the type to 'lead from the front' as it were.
-Ss
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Post by The Wytch-King on Sept 5, 2004 22:59:20 GMT
1. Was Vonotar always old, or did he start out young like the Legends? (Assuming that Alyss is not present at the monastery's destruction, even though she shows up in the later books...why?) I would think that he has reached his actual age naturally. BTW, I always assumed he was not really old, as in "greybeard" - I imagined him similar to Gulnar, that sorcerer from the old Robin Hood TV series. Definitely not a young man anymore, but not yet old. (And somewhat difficult to place, age-wise ... maybe around 45-50 years?) That could simply mean that he's a very gifted student as well ... and, as Outspaced noted, depends on how long he has studied under the Kai Masters to learn these 5 disciplines. Well, Vonotar was probably not present, I'd say. He's more the schemer behind the curtain, so to speak ... And he probably doesn't want to announce his new allegiance to all of Sommerlund, either. Zagarna, however, is another matter. Yes, the attack (as Ghost Bear said) came from the air, but Zagarna could have joined that attack force for a while, riding his own Zlanbeast, to lead the assault on the Kai Monastery. After all, that was where his most dangerous enemies were gathered - he should be there, to make sure the assault is a success, and to enjoy the fall of the Kai ... ;D The Wytch-King
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Post by Ghost Bear on Sept 6, 2004 17:01:33 GMT
Zagarna, however, is another matter. Yes, the attack (as Ghost Bear said) came from the air, but Zagarna could have joined that attack force for a while, riding his own Zlanbeast, to lead the assault on the Kai Monastery. After all, that was where his most dangerous enemies were gathered - he should be there, to make sure the assault is a success, and to enjoy the fall of the Kai ... ;D That's a good point. I think I'd prefer to believe too that the Kai were wiped out due to the presence of the Archlord of the Darklands rather than due to a few measly Giaks flying on Kraan.
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Post by Banedon on Sept 6, 2004 17:03:24 GMT
Zagarna was probably there...after all, he was there during the attack on Holmgard in Book 2...
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Post by Relenoir on Sept 7, 2004 16:28:46 GMT
Agreed; Zagarna was the type to get his hands. . . er, claws dirty, so to speak.
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Post by Sol on Nov 10, 2004 20:02:22 GMT
Something bothered me about Legends... something I can't quite recall. It had something to do with Captain Kelman... something along the lines of him being depicted as alive, then amazingly showing up as a Zombie in "The Tides of Trechary." In the gamebooks, Kelman obviously dies. In the Legends, I am not sure that he does... hmmm! Did this have something to do with Alyss, too? I need to reread to remember what was wrong here!
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Post by Zipp on Nov 11, 2004 1:34:06 GMT
Here is my question. Assuming that all events in the gamebooks are regarded as canon for the series and that the Legends series is just an "alternate" version of Lone Wolf, what is the accepted fact for the following: 1. Was Vonotar always old, or did he start out young like the Legends? (Assuming that Alyss is not present at the monastery's destruction, even though she shows up in the later books...why?) 2. Did Vonotar kill Storm Hawk? If so, how? (We know Storm Hawk is "real" as he is mentioned in book 18) 3. In Legends, Lone Wolf is a lazy student, but in FFtD, he is skilled in 5 of 10 disciplines...not very lazy to me! What do you all think? 4. Are Vonotar and Zagarna even present at the Massacre? Who is it that attacks Toran? (We "see" Toran burning in book one...there is a small illustration of a column if smoke...) That's all I can think of right now. Anyone have any answers? Please only use what is known from the gamebooks and the newsletters and for the moment, disregard the Legends series... -- Swift Stryke 1) In my opinion, Vonotar was not always old. He is described as an ambitious man in one of the early kai books. Now, this is a bit of a leap, but generally ambition falls away with age and dedicated research, especially if surrounded by the likes of the Brotherhood. But, the Brotherhood also recruits its magicians at young ages. Vonotar is also not the highest rank, but is described as "one of the most promising." If he'd been there for long enough to get as old as he is, he would've been promoted by now. Also, you'd think he would've been uinder more careful scrutinization if he'd been around that long harboring that many thoughts of power. No, what makes the most sense is that Vonotar is recruited in his teens, makes quite an impression, learns very quickly, hatches a plan to get more power from the Darklords and leaves before anyone is truly aware of what is happening. So, how did he age? Well, we've seen the effects of dark magics on other humans (most noticeably the Drakkarim leader in the Darke Crusade) and it generally leads to advanced aging. Is it not unreasonable to assume that nadziranim powers in a human may have less than desired effects on the body? 2) This one is a tricky one. The answer is most likely no, or at least not with Lone Wolf present. Lone Wolf does not recognize Vonotar in Book 2, and while Vonotar is decidely, um, uglier by then, you still think that somewhere along the way, Lone Wolf would've put two and two together. Also, let's face it, the way the kai blow the event off in the Legends is a bit perfunctory. You'd think if one of their more powerful warriors was killed, they'd at least investigate. 3) Well, this one depends on what disciplines you choose, I guess. No, to be honest, I always thought of Lone Wolf as a bit disturbed, but not lazy, per sey. I mean, I don't imagine him as star pupil (remember, he is described as having gotten in trouble for fooling around in class in book 1) but I always imagined that he was more talented than the others, and thus would get the point, learn the lesson, before doing the busy work. So, my explanation: He got an F. Than he went and saved the world. 4) I agree with everyone who has given reasons for Zagarna to be present. Zagarna is leading the armies, and Vonotar is probably leading the naval strike. I doubt Vonotar is actually present at the monastery, and we know he doesn't attack Toran. He'd stay as far away from them as he could until book 3 when he kidnaps the guildstaff. As for Kelman, all I know is he dies in the gamebooks and comes back as a zombie under Vonotar's control.
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