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Post by The Wytch-King on May 5, 2004 9:26:22 GMT
What do you guys and gals think of the Magician of Dessi character class from the "Rulebook Preview" of Mongoose's Lone Wolf Rpg? I was wondering especially about your thoughts on the way their magic is presented. As a fan of the Grey Star series I'm of course glad to see the Lesser Magicks of the Shianti (somewhat reduced in power, but nonetheless) represented in the Rpg, but somehow I feel that the Magicians of Dessi are short-changed by that. I always imagined the Old Kingdom magic to be separate from the Brotherhood's left-handed magic as well as the Shianti's magicks. More of a "gloarified" (ahem) kind of the battle magic of the Vakeros (who, after all, were taught their arts by the Elder Magi ...). What would you say? The Wytch-King, nevertheless very keen on the Lone Wolf Rpg (naturally ...) P.S.: For those who don't know where to find that preview, here's the link: www.mongoosepublishing.com/detail.php?qsID=357&qsSeries=Core |
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Post by Ghost Bear on May 5, 2004 10:15:56 GMT
Mongoose seemed to have changed the background to the Dessi folk somewhat. The Magician of Dessi is clearly not an Elder Magi, since the preview I read said that the Magi had all dissapeared. However, I do think that it's a reasonable compromise, since an Elder Magi would not be a very good player character in an RPG. I imagine that's why the magic seems 'toned down' compared to what a true Magi would be capable of.
The powers of the Magician seem to be quite specific, but I'd imagine that roleplaying one would be a lot of fun.
Incidentally, does anyone know if there's a Vakeros Knight character class in the new RPG? That would be pretty neat.
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Post by The Wytch-King on May 5, 2004 12:56:44 GMT
Don't get me wrong, what I meant was not the power, but the nature of their magic. I always thought they used spells like the Vakeros, only that the mages of Dessi have a greater variety, one that doesn't focus on combat mainly. (The Grand Master series does give us a number of Vakeros spells with Magi-magic, and wasn't it Rimoah, an Elder Magi, who taught them to you?) And it's true that an Elder Magi would only barely more playable as a character than a Shianti. The Magicians of Dessi are probably of similar origins as the Vakeros, only not trained as warrior/mages, but as pure mages. An idea I like, by the way!  I only would have preferred Old Kingdom magic to have a "personality", a "character" of it's own, instead of being copied from the Shianti, as it appears to me. (Wonder if a Shianti forgot his arcane notes in the cantina one day ...  ) The Wytch-King, fan of both magic arts (and the Brotherhood's as well) |
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Post by Drear on May 5, 2004 14:54:18 GMT
Actually, I think it fits pretty well. The shianti left traces everywhere, and if anyone would be able to piece together their notes, it would be the elder magi. However, these magics are interesting:
There is left-handed and right-handed magic, the schools of magic of the Brotherhood of the Crystal star and the Nadziranim, respectively. This suggests a link, which means either the brotherhood stole it from the dark magi, or the other way around. Also, given the presence of the graveyard of the ancients in the heart of Sommerlund, it's not a far stretch to assume that the Brotherhood was first, developing their magic from traces of that of the Shianti.
Then there is the magic of the vakeros' and that of the elder magi, which are sort of easier to connect.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Ghost Bear on May 5, 2004 15:26:03 GMT
Yeah I agree with you Wytch-King. It does seem heavily based on the magic of Grey Star, which is OK in itself, but like you say, some individual flavour would have been nice.
I also agree that the magic of the Elder Magi is probably not combat based for the most part - in fact, it's probably fairly subtle in its nature - divination, and that sort of stuff. Still, they obviously know battle magic spells, otherwise, they wouldn't have beaten Agarash, and they wouldn't be able to teach the Vakeros anything. It would have been nice to see perhaps some specific spells, but with a more subtle nature than the 'bang, you're dead' variety.
I do like the idea of the Magicians of Dessi though. Hmmm, who came first, the Elder Magi or the Shianti? I've never been clear on that point.
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Post by outspaced on May 5, 2004 17:38:12 GMT
Hmmm, who came first, the Elder Magi or the Shianti? I've never been clear on that point. According to the Magnamund Companion, the Elder Magi appeared on Magnamund in 4608MS (before the Moonstone) but the Shianti didn't appear on Magnamund until 1600MS (before the Moonstone), three thousand years later. |
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Post by The Wytch-King on May 5, 2004 17:43:33 GMT
So the Shianti cribbed from the Elder Magi? Tsk tsk, who would have thought that ... Bad Shianti! The Wytch-King |
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Post by Relenoir on May 6, 2004 3:10:48 GMT
Yes, this is true. A list of the ones in the GM series for those who don't have the books: Power Word: A gloar-ious spell (sorry, couldn't resist. ) that launches a ball of energy at a target. Invisible Fist: Similar to Power Word, smashes an individual or object. Splinter: Shatter breakable items from a distance. Flameshaft: Ignites the tip of any arrow-like missile. Energy Grasp: Channel electricity into something or someone touched, similar to Lightning Hand. Penetrate: Increases the penetrative strength of any arrow-like missile. Power-Glyph: Inscribing this on any openable or passable item or area prevents the passage of others or the opening of the item. If the seal is passed/broken, the perpetrator suffers the consequences. Hold Enemy: Hold a creature in place within 20 foot radius. Now, now Wytch-King, I know you have a lot of history between you and the Shianti, but there's no reason to refer to them as "bad." As far as the magic goes, I'd say they were kind of independent of each other, considering that the Shianti were a God-like race who came to Magnamund from the Daziarn and the Elder Magi were created on Magnamund. Hopefully, the game reflects this. . . I'd be really disappointed if the Shianti abilities became those of the Elder Magi. It would seem like a cop-out in my opinion. Actually, there was something about this in the Legends series. As I recall, the Brotherhood Magic was basically an evolution of the Elder Magi's, because Banedon taught Rimoah the Second level magics. The Nadziranim were basically rogue Elder Magi, I think. |
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Post by outspaced on May 6, 2004 9:05:31 GMT
Actually, there was something about this in the Legends series. As I recall, the Brotherhood Magic was basically an evolution of the Elder Magi's, because Banedon taught Rimoah the Second level magics. Yes, if memory serves the Brotherhood left-handed magic was described as a heavily refined version of the cruder, more chaotic magic of the Elder Magi. |
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Post by The Wytch-King on May 6, 2004 10:21:07 GMT
Now, now Wytch-King, I know you have a lot of history between you and the Shianti, but there's no reason to refer to them as "bad." But they cheated! And goody-two-shoes shouldn't do that, that's my prerogative.  Hopefully, the game reflects this. . . I'd be really disappointed if the Shianti abilities became those of the Elder Magi. It would seem like a cop-out in my opinion. I'm afraid you will be disappointed ... Their magical abilities are described almost exactly like the Lesser Magicks of the Shianti (with Sorcery, Alchemy, Elementalism ...), only somewhat reduced in raw power. (The link to the preview is in the first post, should you want to take a look at it.) I suppose they wanted to give us fans a sort of Shianti magic without having to give us Shianti player characters or a horde of Grey Stars (a personal nightmare of mine, that one ... ). But, alas, it does feel like a jarring note in a roleplaying game I can't wait to get my hands on. The Wytch-King |
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Post by The Wytch-King on May 19, 2004 9:02:52 GMT
Okay, I suppose this thread can be tied up as well. There was a discussion about this on the Mongoose forum, and one of the developers (August himself) gave the reasons for the "Lesser Magicks" decision - but look for yourselves. Seems valid enough, though I'm still unhappy about it.  The Wytch-King |
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Post by Relenoir on May 19, 2004 13:31:06 GMT
Definitely agree with the Wytch-King here. Feel somewhat short-changed, but better about it than I originally did.
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Post by Guest on May 19, 2004 16:10:57 GMT
Its recently been posted by mongoose people that there WILL be a Shianti Sorceror class (like grey star) available to be played by players. It will appear in the magic of magamund sourcebook.
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Post by Sunwolf on May 19, 2004 23:31:16 GMT
Basically,
My understanding of this whole confusion is this:
Left/Right handed magic is basically the same as: DnD Wizard class.
Magician of Dessi: are basically Sorcerers. And those of you that play DnD know what i'm talking about. It means that their power is inate, that they shape magic as a force of will and not through memorizing spells and rituals.
In DnD, this is interpreted through the difference between wizard and sorcerer. Wizards have a spell book and can memorize any spell in their spell book acording to their spell progression chart in any order they choose. Sorcerers can cast a set number of spells more times than a wizard but do not memorize them. But nor can they choose different spells. Once they go up a level. They choose their next spell(s) and thats it. They're stuck with casting lightning bolt (for ex.) as their 3rd lvl spell. but they can cast it more times than a wizard can.
Make sense? If not just let me know..I'll try and give more examples.
sunwolf
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Post by Relenoir on May 19, 2004 23:58:25 GMT
Makes perfect sense to me! Good description, Sunwolf. I grasped it quickly, but then again, I play 3rd ed. AD&D about once a week right now. |
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