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Post by outspaced on May 16, 2006 14:42:49 GMT
Hi all
I took a few days off the Project to re-live being 21 again by playing the brilliant CRPG Planescape: Torment, and it is just as good now as it was way back in 1999. I loved the idea that you could get much of your experience through actually talking to other characters rather than through random combat, which would surely be very limited in scope as a teacher. And the plot--oh, the plot! Actual depth in a fantasy-themed computer game, rather than the pseudo-depth so many employ ("so-and-so betrays you in Part 2, eben though you thought they were friendly" yaaawn).
It's since occurred to me that neither of the Lone Wolf games mooted in the past few years, the defunct MMORG and the still-in-development RPG, seem all that appealing to me beyond the idea of adventuring in Magnamund. So I've set up this poll to see what other Lone Wolf fans think about Lone Wolf in the computer age: what style of Lone Wolf computer game would you consider preferable?
As much as I love and enjoy Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, the sheer depth and complexity of the Planescape: Torment setting amazes, astounds, and enthralls me far more than a random 'beat up the evil wizard to save the world'-style fantasy-based combat-heavy romp, regardless of how nice the graphics are. Indeed, the NWN module I co-wrote is not so heavy on combat or munchkinism, and has apparently been marked down and overlooked by a number of players for that, though there are others who love it.
So this poll is designed to answer once and for all: What can change the nature of a man?*
Erm, I mean, What do Lone Wolf fans want in a Lone Wolf computer game? Your thoughts, please.
*The answer, in case you were wondering, is belief.
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Post by Doomy on May 17, 2006 9:09:48 GMT
Yar, Planescape: Torment - an all-time classic which for some reason I'm yet to complete. As it happens I recently re-discovered it while we were clearing out my mother's old house and fired it up again on my laptop. I'm currently doing the Godsman Forge bit and need to find a particular kind of bottle from somewhere. PT runs on XP and the much-needed patch is still easily found, so it's thoroughly recommended to anyone who missed it. If anyone does pick it up I humbly suggest building a "smart" character - invest points in INT, CHA and especially WIS.
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Post by outspaced on May 17, 2006 10:59:20 GMT
Hi Doomy! Gotta agree on boosting WIS as soon as possible. It's really very necessary hint. Have you joined the Godsmen yet? If so, Fell can now supply a rather spiffy Tattoo of your joining the Godsmen faction, which gives a couple of nice bonuses hint, hint. For anyone else thinking of playing Planescape: Torment, there are also the fan-fix patches available from this wonderful website. I think it might fix many of the things retroactively if you install the files then load a saved game. There's also the infamous Missing Candlestick Quest which can be downloaded here. I've only completed the game three times myself, but I can seriously see myself going back and replaying it in the near future. Just out of interest, who have you got in your party right now? I'm guessing Dakkon, Morte, Annah; have you freed Ignus yet? Have you tried changing class for the extra quests and party conversation options? Did you talk to Deionarra in the Mortuary? What a fantastic bonus that is to get on only the second map of the game! ;D Once I completed the game in 1999/2000 I immediately went out, bought the hint book, then played it again to find all the bits I'd missed--and the amount of extra stuff I did the second time around was phenomenal. I mostly remembered everything the third time, but I still had the hintbook on standby, just in case. I still botched up talking to that darn Riddling Skeleton, though! Should've waited until I had a much higher INT. I think it's obvious that I love this game. The idea of a Lone Wolf game that has as much depth and attention to character and detail rather than a standard CRPG combat-oriented fight-fest is really very appealing.
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Post by Doomy on May 18, 2006 13:59:09 GMT
Morte, Annah, and Dakkon are all in my party - and so is Fall-From-Grace. Haven't freed Ignus yet because I've found only one of the two necessary items. Haven't tried changing class much - my Nameless One is built as a brain on legs, so became a mage as soon as possible. Spoke to Deionarra, and found her legacy.
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Post by Peregrine on May 28, 2006 17:15:56 GMT
Wait, where's the option for a shoot-'em-up? An old-school shoot-'em-up, a vertical scroller, taking Skyrider up against waves of Kraan and Zlanbeast... ;D
Seriously though, I think Lone Wolf is suited firstly to a well-plotted action adventure (of the hack'n'slash variety, yes, but with solid tactical elements and whatnot); as a second choice, an even better-plotted freeform RPG to explore Magnamund in; thirdly, a large-scale RTS to play out the wars against (or for!) the Darklords. I generally prefer the latter two sorts of games, personally, but as a Lone Wolf game specifically, I think the first is most suitable.
However, the Lone Wolf NWN modules were much more character-driven, and damn fine work at that. (I didn't know you'd worked on any NWN modules, Outspaced... shows how much attention I've been paying to the forums in the last long while...)
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Post by outspaced on May 28, 2006 19:20:10 GMT
You mean a Xenon for the 21st century? Or maybe a horizontal scroller like R-Type? David Whittaker could even be on hand to provide the music. ;D It wasn't an NWN Lone Wolf mod I worked on, I have to admit--actually, it was actually an adaptation of a Fighting Fantasy title!
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Post by Zipp on Jun 1, 2006 21:43:54 GMT
I don't think any of these choices reflect what I'd like for a Lone Wolf game. I'd like an adventure game, like Zelda with elements of Elder Scrolls and God of War, using the reaction system from Kingdom Hearts 2.
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Post by Doomy on Jun 2, 2006 9:22:23 GMT
I continue to plough a lonely furrow as an aficionado of games which combine turn-based combat with RPG-style story. I'd love to see a Lone Wolf game in that style.
(goes back to replaying Shining Force for the millionth time)
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Post by Zipp on Jun 2, 2006 20:50:35 GMT
I continue to plough a lonely furrow as an aficionado of games which combine turn-based combat with RPG-style story. I'd love to see a Lone Wolf game in that style. (goes back to replaying Shining Force for the millionth time) Oh I have a place for those in my heart, too. But most Turn Based games are RPGs, so your statement seems a little redundant. In fact, I can't think of a single turn based which isn't an RPG. In any case, turn based was great in the past, but I've just played soooo many of them that I've gotten a little bored with it. I like action RPGs these days. I really didn't like the D and D series on the computer. I thought it was incredibly boring. Baldur's Gate and all those? Mostly just dungeon crawls. Baldur's Gate wasn't too bad, I guess, but IceWind Dale is pretty boring.
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Post by Doomy on Jun 2, 2006 21:16:50 GMT
True of the Japanese games perhaps but not the many Western series, the most famous of which is probably X-COM: Enemy Unknown, which I think is aka UFO.
Try Planescape: Torment. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread it is VERY different. And it's really good and that.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 2, 2006 22:21:27 GMT
Clarification: UFO: Enemy Unknown was the first of the XCOM games, and its sequel was XCOM: Terror from the Deep. Great games. I even actually completed both of them. ;D And I have to echo Doomy here: the reason I singled Planescape: Torment out as separate from the Baldur's Gate-style games is that despite using the same game engine, the gameplay is radically different, with more emphasis on KNOWING yourself and your companions, if I may be permitted a little in-joke that likely only myself and Doomy will get (nyuk, nyuk!). Check out the reviews on the Internet Movie Database, though the site seems to be down right now, so I can't provide a link*. Be aware that some of the reviews contain some MAJOR spoilers for the game. *Huh! Two minutes later and the site works. Damn my impatience!
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Post by Doomy on Jun 3, 2006 8:03:06 GMT
re: X-COM/UFO
It was only the original Amiga/PC version which was called UFO: Enemy Unknown. The PlayStation conversion (the one I bought) was called X-COM: Enemy Unknown, and it was and still is one of my favourite games ever. Americans may remember it as X-COM: UFO Defense. Less keen on Terror From the Deep though - the graphics were worse, some missions took far too long and I missed my burst-firing heavy plasma guns.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 3, 2006 10:44:11 GMT
Bah! I would never deign to play any games on a Playstation! Gimme a keyboard any day! The PC version of TFTD had better graphics than UFO, so I can only imagine that was a PS problem. Some of the missions were probably too long, but I actually enjoyed TFTD more than UFO. You can download both games for the PC at various abandonware sites across the 'net, but you'll need DOSBox to run the games properly. [End of public service announcement. ]
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Post by Doomy on Jun 3, 2006 10:58:08 GMT
The PS version was mouse-compatible, so not really very different from the PC/Amiga version to play, and also had a CD soundtrack and FMV sequences. So there. The graphics in TFTD were slightly better than the first game, technically speaking, but I thought the actual design was rather ugly. I vastly preferred fighting the enemies of the first game such as the infamous "Greys" - with the X-Files being very much in vogue at the time, this was very appealing to me. The PlayStation version of TFTD also had the worst loading times since the 8-bit cassette era, which didn't do much to endear the game to me either. Update: A quick Google located a download of the Windows version of Enemy Unknown which seemed to run perfectly without additional software - at the right speed and everything. It crashed after an hour or so, but this is a PC game we're talking about so that may not in itself be unusual. Oh and hindsight suggests the PS version's soundtrack was actually chip music and not CD - but it still sounds a hell of a lot better than the PC.
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 6, 2006 13:18:56 GMT
I continue to plough a lonely furrow as an aficionado of games which combine turn-based combat with RPG-style story. I'd love to see a Lone Wolf game in that style. (goes back to replaying Shining Force for the millionth time) Doomy, there is no need to to plough your lonely furrow on your own! As sad as it is to admit this, turn based appeals to me a lot. Or, it is just me adapting LW to my teenagehood again, and simply associating the books that I was reading at the time to the games that I played ( I have forgotten how many times I have replayed Shining Force...and although it is finally consigned to the back of the cupboard I don't know if I will ever truly consign it to the everafter of the rubbish bin... sad, very sad...). I haven't found a modern format that appeals to me as a way of illustrating the landscape of Magnamund and keeping the character and original flavour of the books. Or, is it more of a case of letting go of my traditions and dragging my perceptions of LW into the digital age of 21st Century (kicking and screaming if that is what's necassary). That makes me feel old... and Shining Force was the best game...
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