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Post by blackhawk on Jun 7, 2012 17:44:47 GMT
In your opinion, the Supreme Master Lone Wolf overcame the trauma of the death of his brother, Jen, occurred when he was a boy near his village of birth ?
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Post by Oiseau on Jun 7, 2012 18:21:44 GMT
Well, the Grand Master Lone Wolf still hadn't overcome it, since unexpectedly seeing his brother's face once cost him 8 Endurance points.
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Post by Snowshadow on Jun 7, 2012 18:44:21 GMT
Well done Oiseau, beat me to it.
It is only -2EP if you have Kai Screen. This is Section 242 and beyond Bk 16. However, a Sun Prince with Kai Screen can create an instantaneous Mental Sanctuary, that improves upon Supreme Mastery. So I would say that LW as a Supreme Master would not suffer any stat-loss or other numerical penalty with regard to Jen however I do not think he will ever get over the loss of his brother, merely not be penalized. Bk11 209+ also brings up Jen, though Psi-screen prevents any EP loss.
Lone Wolf has an epiphany and realises Jen played a major role in his destiny whilst on the Daziarn, so arguably Kai Master Lone Wolf is already over Jen.
So I think Supreme Master LW no longer affected by Jen, understands the importance of the loss making LW the person he has become, he'll never forget.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jun 9, 2012 11:44:21 GMT
Might be worth noting- Jen SAVED him before dying. This taught him 3 things-
1. This was the first example of selfless bravery he ever witnessed, before Storm Hawk, Sun Eagle, Winter Owl etc. Heroism in the raw.
There are parallels with the massacre of the Kai though.
2. He must have cursed himself that if he had been more skillful, or more powerful, he could have prevented it. Therefore a constant background desire to improve himself.
3. The Agarashi are foul & merciless & must be destroyed. Utterly.
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Post by johntfs on Jun 9, 2012 16:15:50 GMT
Might be worth noting- Jen SAVED him before dying. This taught him 3 things- 1. This was the first example of selfless bravery he ever witnessed, before Storm Hawk, Sun Eagle, Winter Owl etc. Heroism in the raw. There are parallels with the massacre of the Kai though. 2. He must have cursed himself that if he had been more skillful, or more powerful, he could have prevented it. Therefore a constant background desire to improve himself. 3. The Agarashi are foul & merciless & must be destroyed. Utterly. I agree with you on points one and two, but point three escapes me. We know from The Jungle of Horrors that Lone Wolf has no love for the Agarishi, but he treats them more like nasty obstacles to his goal of gaining the Lorestone than something for whom he feels an especial hatred. |
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jun 10, 2012 19:46:34 GMT
3. The Agarashi are foul & merciless & must be destroyed. Utterly. I agree with you on points one and two, but point three escapes me. We know from The Jungle of Horrors that Lone Wolf has no love for the Agarishi, but he treats them more like nasty obstacles to his goal of gaining the Lorestone than something for whom he feels an especial hatred. He's trying to show some restraint in front of Paido. Just wait till he's alone in a room with one.....     |
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Post by Snowshadow on Jun 10, 2012 20:59:54 GMT
I agree with you on points one and two, but point three escapes me. We know from The Jungle of Horrors that Lone Wolf has no love for the Agarishi, but he treats them more like nasty obstacles to his goal of gaining the Lorestone than something for whom he feels an especial hatred. He's trying to show some restraint in front of Paido. Just wait till he's alone in a room with one..... Ha ha. You're so funny. Storgh are Agarashi then? I seem to remember Legends refers to them as but if you only go by the Gamebooks doesn't it only say that LW falls into the River Tor - no Storgh mentioned. Magnamund Bestiary refers to them as Agarashi too. Would be great to fight one in an actual Gamebook! Anyway, LW would certainly be anti-Agarashi for the simple fact that they are direct descendants of Agarash, Naar's greatest Champion. |
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jun 10, 2012 21:51:07 GMT
The river creature is filed in my brain under 'Agarashi', and there's normally a good reason for such classifications. It must be Legends, one thing they did well before they turned into the Q & A Mary Sue show.
I'd say hating the Agarashi came first, training with the wisdom of their greatest nemesis came later. I imagine he became quite a sullen child after the incident, and his parents couldn't wait to pack him off to monastery boot camp.
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Post by johntfs on Jun 12, 2012 13:56:46 GMT
Bizarre as it may sound, I don't regard the Legends books as canon (mostly because some of them bear only a faint resemblance to the books on which they are supposedly based). Example: The Chasm of Doom book involving Qin and a bunch of madpeople saving LW. So, from my perspective, a six year old LW fell into the river and his brother Jen drowned while managing to save him, no Agarshi needed. Anyway, LW would certainly be anti-Agarashi for the simple fact that they are direct descendants of Agarash, Naar's greatest Champion. Well, sure. But I figure LW is "anti-Agarashi" in the same way that he's generally "anti-Evil." However, when it comes to Vordaks, Helghast, Drakkarim and especially the Darklords, he goes out of his way to kill them because of what happened to the Old Order of the Kai. |
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jun 12, 2012 14:14:53 GMT
Bizarre as it may sound, I don't regard the Legends books as canon (mostly because some of them bear only a faint resemblance to the books on which they are supposedly based). Example: The Chasm of Doom book involving Qin and a bunch of madpeople saving LW. So, from my perspective, a six year old LW fell into the river and his brother Jen drowned while managing to save him, no Agarshi needed. Just re-read the section in 11 & 16- you're right, there are no mentions of Agarashi. There is another bit in 19 I seem to remember, can't remember if that is any more detailed. I agree with your condemnation of the Legends, I haven't read 'Sacrifice' but from your description it sounds Horrible . Nevertheless, as a fleshing out of that early trauma I think the random creature attack works- it gives LW the message that nowhere is truly safe from the creations of Naar. |
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Post by johntfs on Jul 17, 2012 19:16:15 GMT
I figure that the destruction of the Kai Monastery by the Darklord army would have pretty effectively hammered that point home.
Besides, a creature attack just feels a little epic cheesy. It reminds me of the Dragonlance Saga. You had the main three books (Dragons of Autumn Twilight, Winter Night and Spring Dawning) which were followed by the trilogy that focused on Raistlin and Cameron. After that, you had this absolute crapload of Prequels featuring all these others times these people defeated the Dark Queen. I swear to God it seemed like any day they were going to release The Special, Secret Ultimate Chronicles of the Lance Volume I: Tanis, The Toilet Training.
I don't want that stuff for Lone Wolf. He was noble born, but relatively normal kid. He fell in a river and his bother died saving him. He went to be trained at the Kai Monastery where he was one of a whole bunch of other Kai students (and in the classic series, not one of the most diligent either). Then, once the Hammer of Naar fell, he was the last of the Kai and was forced to live up to the destiny of defeating the Darklords and recreating the Kai.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Jul 17, 2012 21:56:25 GMT
Fair enough. Weis & Hickman- that takes me back! I guess their problem is that they end there stories so completely that they can only have prequels or start a whole new trilogy in a brand new world (which they did, frequently). Not like the Lone Wolf saga that keeps on rolling forever...... I do want more back story on Lone Wolf though- what drives him to be so indolent at one stage, then so brilliant and fearless later on? Did he ever revisit his (aged) family later on, possibly in secret or in disguise...? Do any of his nephews or nieces become Kai Lords or wizards or anything? This is the sort of thing I'd have liked the novels to explore, that and what is it like to master certain disciplines & lore circles, etc. If only they hadn't been so preoccupied with Qinefer and Alyss (and, to a lesser extent, Banedon).....  |
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Post by johntfs on Jan 29, 2013 7:00:32 GMT
Yeah, I'm a threadcromancer.
Well, to be fair, we really don't know how indolent he was. The text says he was caught daydreaming in class, but he's a fifteen year old guy. Maybe he was distracted by fellow female initiates, Swung Tail and High Bosum or just looked out the window at the exact wrong second the teacher's eye fell on him. My general take on Silent Wolf was that he was a slightly above average student more focused on fighting and cool stuff than classroom learning.
He was certainly nothing like that little bastich from the New Order books. Fourth degree Grandmaster by age twenty. [good], he must have had one of those Chinese Tiger Mothers before he went to the monastery.
Still, that episode lets you infer a lot about Lone Wolf. Think of the survivor's guilt you'd carry knowing the only reason you lived through the monastery attack was that you screwed something up. If he'd been paying attention like a good Kai Lord, he'd have died with the rest.
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Post by Rusty Radiator on Feb 2, 2013 22:38:08 GMT
I hear you about the New Order brainiac swot. That's the main reason I feel you HAVE to pump LW's CS in 13- he's already destined to get a bit Sunset Boulevard in a decade or three.
While we're doing Threadnomancy you mentioned LW being "noble-born". I thought he was from a peasant family in Dage....?
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Post by johntfs on Feb 3, 2013 18:17:01 GMT
I hear you about the New Order brainiac swot. That's the main reason I feel you HAVE to pump LW's CS in 13- he's already destined to get a bit Sunset Boulevard in a decade or three. While we're doing Threadnomancy you mentioned LW being "noble-born". I thought he was from a peasant family in Dage....? Nobles aren't just barons, dukes or earls. You also have lower nobles like baronets and knights. Pretty much anyone who can put "Sir" before their name is a noble. Lone Wolf's family could easily be small landholders in Dage. |
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