andyr
Kai Lord
Posts: 122
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Post by andyr on Jun 16, 2004 5:20:33 GMT
I agree with you... all the NO books seem quite hectic, like mini-series (21-22 + 23; 24 and 25; 26; 27-28), unless we take as a leit motiv a lot of Agarash background (Naaros, some of his old minions).
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Post by Wild Horse on Jun 16, 2004 14:47:11 GMT
That was a good point raised...the many various hints of Agarash that are given. Here is my opinion:
LW 21-22: I would say this is more to finish up the Moonstone saga that was begun towards the end of LW 19. Also a chance for readers to experience Vassagonia once more and to venture into Shadaki after the fall of Shasarak.
Agarash hints? Try the Elder Magi...after all, they were the remnants of the wizards that ended his reign so many centuries ago...
~~~ LW 23: More of a standalone, although Karvas is mentioned by name in LW 27.
Agarash hints: GM and Karvas takes a short detour into Bhanar (where Sejanoz is known to be Agarash-worshipping) and pass by the borders of Naaros itself.
~~~ LW 24-25: The only link seems to be Zorkaan the Soultaker, but both books seems to highlight the lingering forces of Darkness that still lives on the Darklands and the lands of mankind.
Agarash hints? Vandyan uses the runes of Agarash to devastating effect. ~~~ LW 26: A standalone, but you are now pitched against a former lieutenant of Agarash.
Agarash hints? Shomzaa...
~~~ LW 27-28: The Claw of Naar and the subsequent Bhanarian invasion of Chai.
Agarash hints? Plenty...you engage to seize control of a weapon used by Agarash and also face up against Autarch Sejanoz, known to be a Agarash supporter.
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Post by Black Cat on Jun 16, 2004 20:01:11 GMT
That was a good point raised...the many various hints of Agarash that are given. Here is my opinion: LW 21-22: I would say this is more to finish up the Moonstone saga that was begun towards the end of LW 19. Also a chance for readers to experience Vassagonia once more and to venture into Shadaki after the fall of Shasarak. Agarash hints? Try the Elder Magi...after all, they were the remnants of the wizards that ended his reign so many centuries ago... Well, I don't know if you have notice that, but Sesketera is cursing by using the name au Agarash when he meets you: maybe he's a worshipper of that big bad guy? LW 23: More of a standalone, although Karvas is mentioned by name in LW 27. I don't agree with that, since you start this adventure exactly where you ended book 22, so it's more like the sequel of that book. LW 24-25: The only link seems to be Zorkaan the Soultaker, but both books seems to highlight the lingering forces of Darkness that still lives on the Darklands and the lands of mankind. Once again, book 25 is the sequel of book 24: the ending of one is the beginning of the other. And, among all the battle in the last 3 books, there's a lot of them involving beasts created by Agarash. But, hey, good work to highlight all the hints of Agarash return. That was pretty interesting.
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andyr
Kai Lord
Posts: 122
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Post by andyr on Jun 17, 2004 8:53:21 GMT
My big pain on this whoe issue is the suspicion that Joe Dever planned a bigger role as antagonist villain for Autarch Sejanoz: he's been alive for millennia, he controls a large empire and a huge army with lotsa nifty powers (like those rifle-like weapons in book 23) and he made a face-to-face pact with old Agarash himself...
Bigger SPOILER ALERT (hey guys, how do you make the white font, it does not show up in my color menu)
The way Sejanoz is killed by GM at the end of book 28 was such a turn down... He must be a shrewd thousands-years old sorcerer and he just dips in a frontal assault! well, he may be invulnerable, but that action, to go in person to squeeze out a little besieged platoon, seems so out-of-character. My big suspicion is that Dever, seeing that the series was going to be cut out short (also check the 300-section long book), just tried to round-up the plotline in a rush and at least end with GM defeating the villain, as opposed to a cliffhanger in a longer-spanning line (maybe a powered-up autarch Sejanoz would have been the nemesis of book 32, after conquering Chai, consolidating his power and ravaging war all over Southern Magnamund and perhaps North too). I got LW28 after reading all the info about the series being cancelled and so on, and I was really surprised (with a big turn down) when I found myself finishing off the Autarch at the end of Book 28, something I never expected to happen till a miracle took place or some dedicated person did a fan version of LW29-32!!!
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andyr
Kai Lord
Posts: 122
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Post by andyr on Jun 17, 2004 8:55:28 GMT
Another musing which I think has not been pointed out yet... It seems that there were plans for a "Greystar 2" series, which never came to fruition... Greystar is mentioned in LW22 as "missing in action" somewhere over the Saadi desert, I think. Could not the further plotline in LW29- involve a meeting between GM and Greystar?? His disappearance after taking control of Shadaki is really one of those "lingering plotlines" of the Magnamund saga.
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Post by The Wytch-King on Jun 17, 2004 9:25:10 GMT
(hey guys, how do you make the white font, it does not show up in my color menu) True, that's the biggest secret of this forum. Try ... *drums* ... Beige! Who would have thought that, eh? (Had to "quote"-commandeer another post where it was used to find that out ... ) The Wytch-King
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Post by outspaced on Jun 17, 2004 9:51:16 GMT
My big pain on this whoe issue is the suspicion that Joe Dever planned a bigger role as antagonist villain for Autarch Sejanoz Absolutely! That was always my view on it as well. He just dies too easily. There's also the bizarre fact that it only has 300 sections . . . where are the remaining 50 sections? Maybe they would have added foreshadowing for the succeeding books after Sejanoz escapes? Yes, Ian Page was apparently to write an advanced Grey Star series . . . but the publishers said, "No." Not enough sales, one can assume. Dever has been very enigmatic on the subject of Grey Star, saying that he was originally to appear in Bucanners of Shadaki but that 'things didn't turn out that way.' *shrugs* Grey Star's rescue is a believable plot for a book. You've already rescued Lone Wolf after all!
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Post by Black Cat on Jun 17, 2004 23:23:40 GMT
Grey Star's rescue is a believable plot for a book. You've already rescued Lone Wolf after all! Hum, that's what I tought before reading an interview of Joe Dever on the net: www.magnamund.org/authors/dever/display.php?file=0dever.txt&page=3 (Check the last question on the page) After reading that, I changed my mind, since Joe stated clearly that Grey Star will not be back in a LW book. (But maybe he has changed his mind after 6 years?) As for Sejanoz, well, I don't think that he would be back, even if the series was to resume. I assume that a big part of the missing 50 sections in book 28 were about a more spectacular fight against him and that the result was about the same: you slain him. Anyway, like I pointed it out in a precedent post, there's some bad guys that might be back as the main villains in books 29-32: Sesketera, Vandyan and Ulonga. That's three villains for 4 books, so let say that one of them will come back twice (probably Ulonga or Sesketera), there's not a place for another appearance of Sejanoz. Anyway, he would be in competition with Cadak for the most appearances as a main villain of a book with 3, and I don't think that the Arch-Druid would give that title easily.
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Post by Gorak on Jul 25, 2004 14:09:34 GMT
Recently one thought came to my mind and I was surprised it didn't appear there (in my head earlier: What's written in the end of the Hunger of Sejanoz about next adventure? I mean in all books there's something like this: "And You can find out what will be the fate of Magnamund in the next book called ..." Since I don't have book #28 maybe You could help? And about the ultimate oponnent at the end of the series - I think it would be better not to ressurect someone (i.e. Vashna, Agarash) though it could be interesting but to bring some new evil (also I wouldn't be pleasured to fight Naar himself). But what about bringing a new god into the play? Then forces of Good and Evil will have to ally ( ) and fight side by side (e.g. GM from books 21-28, Lone Wolf and two champions of Evil - could be A. and V.). At the end You get some artifact using which You force Naar to sign peace with Kai and Ishir. And at any time the series could be 're-opened' as peace between Good and Evil is always fragile...
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Post by Black Cat on Jul 26, 2004 4:52:46 GMT
Joe knew that book 28 would be his last for a long, long time, so the ending is pretty vague. It's approximately: "Kai and Ishir are proud of you and will grant you a long life...", or something like that, I'm not sure. It keeps a door open for a resurrection of the series. As for the ultimate ennemy of a possible book 32, that third party coming into the battle is a good idea, although I don't know were it could come from (maybe the Daziarn?). But I'm sure that Evil would not make peace with Good to fight against that ennemy. I'm not even sure if the word "peace" exists in Naar's vocabulary! He would prefere to sit there (and "eat this pile of feces" like Relenoir is joking about on this forum ) and wait to see who's going to win and then he would fight against that winner. It's less trouble and it gives him the advantage to fight against an ennemy that is already weakened by his precedent struggle.
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Post by Relenoir on Jul 26, 2004 12:09:40 GMT
I'm not even sure if the word "peace" exists in Naar's vocabulary! He would prefere to sit there (and "eat this pile of feces" like someone is joking about on this forum ) That would be me! ;D For the full quote, see the bottom of my post.
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Post by Black Cat on Jul 26, 2004 16:27:18 GMT
Here, I edited my precedent post to give you the full credit for the quotation.
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Post by Kenobi on Jul 26, 2004 19:07:18 GMT
I think in the entire Lone Wolf saga the main theme is the struggle between Good and Evil; there's a strong dualism and NEVER Kai and Naar could ally to fight a third enemy god In LW 12 and LW 20 Lone Wolf enters in the core of the evil (it is Helgedad, or Dazganon), so what in LW32 ? I think that after you have become a Supreme Kai Master, you become a God-like being and Naar himself should attack Magnamund, maybe killing Lone Wolf, to have a worthy opponent !!! ...a little too extreme
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Post by Gorak on Jul 26, 2004 19:34:26 GMT
Well, I thought about fighting Naar, the Dark God ,himself. But it seemed to me too 'extreme' as Kenobi said. You know it's too predictable - like in some American (but not only American) movies - the best good guy vs. the best (worst) bad guy. Nothing against American cinematography (or of any other country) just wanted to give an example. The idea with killing Lone Wolf is interesting but totally unacceptable - I wouldn't let him die ;D. On the other hand...maybe fighting Naar could be handled (written) interestingly but it would have to be something more than just 'meeting' him at the end and his death takes You to the section 350...
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Post by Black Cat on Jul 27, 2004 0:12:32 GMT
Here's the probable CS and EP of Naar: Naar: CS: 2,500 EP: 10,000 Do you still want to fight a real god, you small little humans?
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