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Post by jardek on Jan 16, 2006 6:59:21 GMT
I was going to bag out a book on the 'first book you bought' thread, but decided it'd be self-defeating to take my own threads off-topic.
What are your most and or least favourite of the LW series? All three series (Kai, Magnakai, GM). For me, my most favourite would probably be either Dungeons of Torgar or Masters of Darkness.
DoT is great because right from the get-go you can get involved in a war, and turn the tide of the battle with your prowess in scouting and combat. It's really got an epic feel. Plus you get to boot the demon puppy in the butt, and there are some great enemies (Baron Shinazar or whatever his name is - I really got an epic feel fighting him, like everybody in the armies stopped to watch the two titans clash).
MoD is pretty good as well, because you find all that great loot. Some people like adventure, some like killing, but I'm all about the loot. The only time you ever get as much of a potential addition to your CS is in FotW. I also enjoyed the naval warfare aspect of the book, like when you try to jump into the water and accidentally hit the deck of an ironclad, and proceed to blow it to pieces. And riding on the zlaanbeast. And riding on the Jawa mining vessel. And your deadly race for Kraagenskul's sword...
Yeah, wow. Okay, now onto least favourites. I know a lot of people [pregnant dog] about Captives of Kaag, but I don't know why. It was a little bit drab, but you get that green key!
Anyway, my least favourite is probably either jungles of horror or legacy of Vashna. As far as JoH goes, I freaking hate Paido. The guy is completely useless. I've spouted my vitriol about him before, and I just want to state that the book would have been a heck of a lot easier if you could have just slit his throat the first time he turned around. I also dislike that in Tharro, you HAVE to go to the monastery. And there's no way to avoid what happens there. Fantastic. They're just damn lucky there's that little bonus for stopping by.
Why LoV? How about all the rolls for instant death you have to take. I've never seen so many insta-death rolls in my life. Especially if you take the sommerswerd. As if a horde of adgana-chewing psychopaths would overpower me. I'd just cut them all up into little psycho-chunks. By that stage I have a CS of something nearing one million.
And then there are those riddles that don't really make a lot of sense. AUGH!
And maybe add prisoners of time to the list. That whole book basically seems to be LW hallucinating. And the map of the Daziarn doesn't make sense and isn't followable, either. I like maps.
Disclaimer: I have not read beyond deathlord of ixia.
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Post by Oiseau on Jan 16, 2006 20:00:21 GMT
How about all the rolls for instant death you have to take. I've never seen so many insta-death rolls in my life. There are a ton of those in EVERY Grand Master book. It makes Lone Wolf in Volume 20 a contradiction -- he would have been dead a long time ago. Just a quick run-through from memory. 3 in volume 13 : swinging chain, Tarzan jump, falling bridge. 2 in volume 14 : entering Kaag, leaving Kaag. 2 in volume 15 : saving Prarg, jumping over chasm. 2 in volume 16 : entering Vashna camp, resisting all-sucking void. 2 in volume 17 : dodging Tagazin's helmet, collapsing tower. 1 in volume 18 : gratuitous random number near the end after winning. 1 in volume 19 : crumbling cavern. 3 in volume 20 : crossing the dragon city (either way), avoiding notice by Tzor, avoiding notice by other goons. A few of those are 20% odds of death, not 10%. Do some math and figure out Lone Wolf's odds BEFORE he makes the slightest choice or fights a single combat. Not nice.
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Post by Zipp on Jan 16, 2006 20:09:29 GMT
(Some MAJOR spoilers in here, just a disclaimer)
Well, I need to make it through the series again before I give a real reply to this, but I've always held up Legacy of Vashna as one of my favorites. There were just a lot of good moments in this book, and story wise, it's one of the few that really ties into an overal plot.
For instance, you learn about your brother in this book, you meet Alyss, you finally end everyone's hopes and dreams for reviving Vashna, you finally defeat Cadak... Legacy of Vashna was the beginning of the end of the series. Everything is begining to be set up in that book.
Least favorite? Well, like I said, I haven't played some of them in a while... I also don't love Jungle of Horrors. Just doesn't interest me that much. I also can't remember loving the Darke Crusade, but that was years and an abbreviated edition ago. Who knows what I'll think the next time I read it? It could end up being a favorite of mine! So for now, we'll go ahead and say the Jungle of Horrors. It's gotta mean something that that was the book I ended on every time I tried to do a full run of the series. I just get bored with that one.
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Post by Doomy on Jan 16, 2006 21:28:30 GMT
Of course, TLOV isn't without its problems. Exhibit A: Shamath's riddle.
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Post by Black Cat on Jan 16, 2006 23:42:20 GMT
Wolf's Bane is the one that I don't really like. It feels... not right, it doesn't have the style of the other books. Being on a planet with aliens that have advanced technology, it's good for a Fighting Fantasy book, not for a LW book.
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Post by jardek on Jan 17, 2006 6:53:48 GMT
Okay. Meeting alyss = not a pro.
I was really pissed off when I smacked her with the sommerswerd and it bounced off. Seriously. WTF, it should have cut her loftier-than-thou head off.
And I have to admit, I don't remember reading about your brother. The only reference I ever really found was in PoT, when you're floating through the spirit realm.
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Post by Oiseau on Jan 17, 2006 13:37:08 GMT
The only reference to Lone Wolf's brother in the Legacy of Vashna is when Shamath (in her worm-form) assumes his face to shock Lone Wolf into losing 8 Endurance points. Now that's trauma !
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Post by Black Cat on Jan 17, 2006 17:43:25 GMT
There's a reference to your brother in both LoV and PoT, and in PoT you also get info on your sister.
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Post by Zipp on Jan 17, 2006 19:13:30 GMT
Okay. Meeting alyss = not a pro. I was really pissed off when I smacked her with the sommerswerd and it bounced off. Seriously. WTF, it should have cut her loftier-than-thou head off. I liked Alyss before I found out about her role in the Legends. I thought she was an enigmatic addition to the cast of Lone Wolf. Her role was well placed, too. And she didn't seem invincible in the Gamebooks, she just seemed to be part of a higher dimension. I was dissapointed when I learned (in Albion) she was a cosmic being. In my own mind, I always wondered if she was perhaps from one of the other worlds Naar and Kai controlled, as she always seemed to be distracted by a struggle going on 'elsewhere.'
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Post by outspaced on Jan 17, 2006 21:53:15 GMT
Least favourite? I'm going to have to agree with Joe on this one. Legends 6: The Sacrifice of Ruanon. I found it absolutely awful. Unreadable. A novelisational butchering of a superb gamebook. Gamebook-wise, probably Fire on the Water--it's far too linear. dever seems to have come to the same conclusion because in every subsequent adventure there's two man pathways through the book rather than one trunk with a couple of diversions.
Favourite? The Chasm of Doom springs to mind, though I'd probably say Dawn of the dragons might just have the edge. Special commendation also goes out to The Darke Crusade and Mydnight's Hero.
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Post by Zipp on Jan 18, 2006 0:33:34 GMT
Least favourite? I'm going to have to agree with Joe on this one. Legends 6: The Sacrifice of Ruanon. I found it absolutely awful. Unreadable. A novelisational butchering of a superb gamebook. Gamebook-wise, probably Fire on the Water--it's far too linear. dever seems to have come to the same conclusion because in every subsequent adventure there's two man pathways through the book rather than one trunk with a couple of diversions. I have to ask, since I've heard so much opinion about it, what is Sacrifice of Ruanon about? I know it's the novelisation of Book 4, but what's the overal plot. What makes it so detestable? I know the end has that bit about the future... Any other spoilers for me? Guys?
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Post by Thomas Wolmer on Jan 18, 2006 7:09:01 GMT
Fire on the Water--it's far too linear. dever seems to have come to the same conclusion because in every subsequent adventure there's two man pathways through the book rather than one trunk with a couple of diversions. Except in books 11, 12 and 15...
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Post by outspaced on Jan 18, 2006 11:34:26 GMT
@ Thomas: Hmm, you may be right on those. Something in the construction/writing of those three makes them very enjoyable, to my mind, though. Comparing those three to FotW, I just find there's something that makes the latter far less enjoyable to re-read/re-play.
@ Zipp: My main complaint about the unreadability of TSoR is first and foremost the writing style: it's horrible. It doesn't flow at all. Reading it was a difficult chore. Grant/Barnett had been getting steadily worse from Book 4 (Hunting Wolf) in the construction of his prose, and it reached a nadir with Book 6. His subsequent books in the Legends show a marked improvement that continued to the end of the series.
As for the plot: *** MEGA-SPOILERS *** Lone Wolf is useless in the book. Qinefer has to come and bail him out of the battle at Ruanon. Petra (another female ANC) is also integral to the plot. As is Viveka. Oh, did I forget to mention the second verse of the poem that "Gwynian" gives to Lone Wolf on the Ruanon Pike? The verse that says how important these three women will be in defeating Barraka? And that Lone Wolf is merely "a humble lord"? Or how the Battle of Ruanon isn't won by the defenders, nor by anything D'val or Lone Wolf did, but by the "Ruanon Crazies", a bunch of insane freaks that live in the countryside around Ruanon? Lone Wolf doesn't even really do anything in the ruined city of Maaken. And that's not even touching on the stupid technological future found in the Epilogue, where Alyss appears in disguise and tells a university professor from Toran about the myths surrounding the Maakengorge and Ruanon.
All in all, a huge disappointment.
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Post by Runeheart on Jan 18, 2006 13:10:14 GMT
As for my favorite...I have said this before, Book 4 is my favorite (this is where LW seems to mature from an errand boy into someone more independant) The first time he leads troops, the first time his decisions effect others around him and the first pitched battle he fights. And the foot chase from the mines to the township just oozes tension and would be great cinema.Book 5 is a very close second and had a great concept with two storylines (it's a shame Joe didn't try this again in a different book, but which one?) As for the the MagnaKai series, Book 6 is hard to go past (a great story of LW making his way into the world, and the introduction of Roark), Book 9 is good but Book 10 would be my favorite (the Battle of Cetza is great, especially the Ziran and Baron Shinzar), but Book 12 has some great twists and surprises with people (DL's) you meet. Finally for the GM series Book 13 and 14 both built up to the confrontation with Cadek really well (in fact I remember complaining to my brother that I was getting annoyed and wanted to finish him off), Book 15 would be close with showing more about the Drakkar (Death Knights being my favorite enemy), and I always wondered what was in Ixia (since first seeing the MC), but Book 18 DotD would be my favorite GM book, the desperation, the journey, it tied quite a few other characters back to the books too. As for linear books I thought Book 19 Wolf's Bane was the worst of all, and yet the introduction seemed to have the most potential, there's some really good bits (intro of the 4 Kai Masters and the Wolf's Bane under the cemetary) but it never really gelled for me ( I think a good idea was over played with the chase and the contstant world hopping I found it annoying after a while), but world hopping in Book 20 worked well and seemed to flow, each one showed an increase in the conflict and what was at stake. As for a least favorite, I find it hard to choose any because each showed a different part of Magnamund that just showed a bigger and bigger picture as each book was played out, Book 3 and 7 would probably be rated lower then others for me, but I can't think of anything that is particularly flawed with them, and each book undoubtably adds to the collective whole that is the best designed and complete series there is. Has anyone else written as many good books about the same character and had them go through as much growth. Specially when the reader is the character and there are some good ones FF book Talisman of Death intros a great fantasy world called Orb ( which is also used by a well known ninja hero and I have about 3 of the dual player books as well and they are great) but aside from a half-dozen books it never reaches very far.(Talisman is probably my favorite FF book, that, and Deathtrap Dungeon and the two follow-on books) The best of the best, Book 4 without a doubt -Chasm of Doom-
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Post by jardek on Jan 22, 2006 21:59:43 GMT
I have to admit again, so that you can all see my glaringly fickle nature, that I wasn't that fond of Cadak. His plans usually revolved around "Hah! I'll send a tough monster at Lone Wolf and not plan for anything else!"
I was always disappointed by the way he seems to look shocked and surprised when you kill his monster, and resorts to yelling "Curses!" as his fallback plan. Seriously. A real evil overlord would have intended right from the start for LW to kill his monster, only to reveal that the monster was really LW's mother or something.
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