Ixia
Kai Lord
Posts: 32 
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Post by Ixia on Jun 30, 2022 15:00:53 GMT
Raising your face to the clear sky, you swear vengeance on the Darklords for the massacre of the Kai warriors. You will get your revenge, no matter the cost and no matter how many lives you have to take. For your are now the last of the Kai-you are now Doom Wolf!
You warn the King of the terrible threat. Without realizing how much mentally scarred Doom Wolf is, Ulnar sends you on a quest to find the Sommerswerd. At first, everything seems find. Until Gorn Cove…
***
Reading Fire on the Water, I decided for the fun of it to see what happens if you get really REALLY mad after one of your fellow travellers tried to kill you.
First off, you look at Ganon’s face. He looks suspect (I mean, really, look at him!). His brother Dorier enters the battle too. Too bad for him. You kill them both.
The door opens. The Town Guard Sergeant, his Corporal and four other soldiers want to arrest you. You decide to stand and fight them. You kill all six!
You then run into a nearby shop and climb the stairs. The mob is coming after you. Two Szalls and three angry Villagers make their way first. They will pay for what the Darklords have done! You kill all five.
If you’re keeping the count, that is a staggering THIRTEEN innocent people that Lone Doom Wolf have murdered in a space of a couple paragraphs! You can also kill a fourteen victim (a Szall) but at the cost of your own life.
Two questions:
1. Is there any other places in the entire Lone Wolf saga where you can kill so many people at once, and especially innocent ones, and still survive?
2. Have any of you went on that Gorn Cove murdering spree by accident, when you read the book the first couple of times?
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Post by johntfs on Jul 1, 2022 4:40:05 GMT
I haven't really added it up, but you might be able to beat that number in the Temple of the Sword in Book 8. The monks there are essentially innocent worshipers who have been tricked into attacking you by the Helghast that's their leader.
I think I fell into a version of it early on at one point but I think I've always started by attacking Parsion. Even when I hadn't noticed his tattoo, in the big picture he just "looked" evil what with the hooded cloak and all.
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Post by Black Cat on Jul 1, 2022 14:53:56 GMT
I haven't really added it up, but you might be able to beat that number in the Temple of the Sword in Book 8. The monks there are essentially innocent worshipers who have been tricked into attacking you by the Helghast that's their leader. The problem is that we never know how many there are. When you fight the monks, they are always considered as one enemy, even if they 5, 8 or 20. I think that sequence in Gorn's Cove is the only place in the series where we can count exactly how many innocent victims we can make. |
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Post by Ofecks on Jul 1, 2022 16:45:53 GMT
This is an achievement in Seventh Sense. It's on a point system where various targets are worth 1 or 2 and you need 4 to get it. There are also some more innocent targets that you can encounter after the town massacre, as a bonus.
To answer question #2, I noticed the combat sections with the multiple opponents while reading through normally, and it seemed like a really bad idea until the achievement system was implemented in Seventh Sense. It's pretty difficult if your LW isn't a particularly beefy one. Even if you don't plan to murder the whole town, I don't think beating Ganon/Dorier is very feasible as their stats are ridiculous.
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Post by johntfs on Jul 1, 2022 22:47:48 GMT
This is an achievement in Seventh Sense. It's on a point system where various targets are worth 1 or 2 and you need 4 to get it. There are also some more innocent targets that you can encounter after the town massacre, as a bonus. To answer question #2, I noticed the combat sections with the multiple opponents while reading through normally, and it seemed like a really bad idea until the achievement system was implemented in Seventh Sense. It's pretty difficult if your LW isn't a particularly beefy one. Even if you don't plan to murder the whole town, I don't think beating Ganon/Dorier is very feasible as their stats are ridiculous. It's possibly doable with CS 18 or 19/EP 26+, Weaponskill (and having the weapon) and retaining that Shield +2 CS. You're effectively at CS 22/23 which is is a CR of -5/-6 verses their CS of 28. Figure you'll still get beat to hell and need some luck on the RNT to win. |
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Ixia
Kai Lord
Posts: 32
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Post by Ixia on Jul 2, 2022 0:30:58 GMT
I haven't really added it up, but you might be able to beat that number in the Temple of the Sword in Book 8. The monks there are essentially innocent worshipers who have been tricked into attacking you by the Helghast that's their leader.
***** This is a great answer johntfs! Although BlackCat is right to say we never get to know exactly how many monks are killed, it's fair to say there are a lot of them, and probably more than the 13 victims of Gorn Cove. In fact, if you take all the wrong decisions, you actually face and kill FOUR groups of monks! 1) The first battle can erupt right after you kill the Helghast. You're offered to escape after three rounds. But Doom Wolf doesn't run away! They will pay for the Helghast. For Paido. For the Darklords. FOR EVERYTHING!!! 2) A bit later, you can hide with Paido who desperately needs your help. Or you can stand in the central aisle and await your pursuers. Doom Wolf doesn't hide. He murders them all! As a bonus, he also gets to kill their hunting dogs. 3) After saving Paido and meeting Gnaag, you can take a look in the stables, hide in a wagon... or once again choose to stand and confront the monks. Guess what Doom Wolf chooses. " ‘Murderers!’ they scream, their voices echoing across the town." Doom Wolf is about to prove them right... 4) Finally, you meet two monks (the only time their number is stated). They shout a curse and draw their swords, riding straight towards you. Doom Wolf will make sure they never make such a mistake ever again! |
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Post by nicktatler76 on Aug 23, 2022 20:34:14 GMT
I'm currently revisiting and replaying this wonderful series via the Project Aon website.
There are only three occasions where I've allowed LW to escape from a fight for moral reasons (I always assumed the monks in Book 8 were all Helghast)
Gorn Cove: I'm not killing the town guards as they're just doing their job and for all they know I've just killed a priest for no reason
Book 6: the Quarlen town guards (again) after I toll break- and I only broke the toll because the first guard let everyone else through for free and then charged me! Again, the other guards are just doing their job and following the law
Book 9: the racist mercenary's friend in the Tahou eating house. He didn't actually do anything wrong apart from backing his pal up. In this scenario I escape but knock him out cold first (I think I cut the mouthy one's hand off though, if memory serves)
Technically there is another, the confused Lencian Knight near the end of Book 15, although you have to fight him (but only to knock out rather than kill)
I just can't allow LW, a noble Kai, to kill innocent people who are caught up in a situation. I do like the idea of LW losing his sh*t and going on a Gorn Cove murder spree though, like a Magnamund version of Michael Myers 😀
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Ixia
Kai Lord
Posts: 32
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Post by Ixia on Aug 27, 2022 0:52:14 GMT
I had high hopes for a Doom Wolf Quarlen massacre. I was hoping our mentally scarred hero could fight the town guards, then maybe some reinforcements too. Sadly, it was not meant to be.
If you don't pay the toll, you only get to face the sergeant. Even more strange is the fact that you're asked if you win the fight in three rounds or less, or if the fight goes longer. I thought a longer fight would mean the sarge would get some help. But no, both scenarios bring you to the same result. The only thing that changes is the reaction of the crowd (scared or angry). Just a way to get a 350th section I would guess.
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 27, 2022 4:02:08 GMT
I've just thought of another place where you can kill a lot of innocent people: the partisans in book 10. If you kill Halgar and took his whip, you can then follow a stream. If you have Nexus with the rank of Primate or higher or if you have Curing, you avoid losing consciousness. You can then answer to the hidden Partisans. Since you have the whip, they will attack you. Their numbers is not known exactly but on section 223, you have a hint:
In military, there are various definitions for a "section", but since Joe was British, a section consists of 7 to 12 men in the British army. In the ensuing fight, it doesn't mention if only a few of them attack or if any have survived, so I'll presume that LW kills between 7 and 12 innocent partisans that thought that he was a bad guy.
A smaller massacre can happen in Pirsi. When you try to get to meet Sebb Jarel to get his help to travel to Torgar, you are first facing five Partisans with one pretending to be Sebb Jarel. You can either tell them the truth about your mission (and they will not believe you) or draw a weapon knowing the guy in front of you is not who he says he is to start the fight. You can kill all five of them and on the next section, you will be facing a partisan horseman, bringing the total to 6 innocent victims. If you count Halgar earlier (whithout taking his whip), that's exactly 7 innocent victims. That's only half of the Gorn's Cove massacre, but that's still a lot.
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Post by Ofecks on Aug 27, 2022 17:42:01 GMT
Ooo, yeah that's a good example. It's also a SS cheevo. It's the maximum amount possible - you have to make it to their hideout first and kill them, plus the horseman, plus Halgar in the watchtower!
You can keep the bullwhip by climbing out of the valley. The scouts that check your salute and where you were trained don't notice the whip on you.
I went through all my notes for the various "Mischievous" awards and found a list of more innocent targets:
Book 1 - the caravan bodyguard (if you choose to outright attack first)
Book 2 - Gorn Cove, as mentioned; a watchtower guard in Ragadorn; the Durenor border guards (Knight of the White Mountain, tower guard, bridge guards)
Book 3 - basically any ice barbarian, but especially the ones in the kitchen, via the Graveweed concentrate, and the throne-hall guards, via combat; both events have options to get by without killing them
Book 4 - the Redeemers in the ruins
Book 5 - the crew of the ship you sailed in on, by proxy
Book 6 - Quarlen town sergeant, possibly the Varettian mercenaries (in the Barrel Bridge Tavern), Redbeard, Varetta city watch
Book 7 - Tavig! That's a real nasty choice to make. Maybe also the guy on fire in the maze?
Book 8 - the tavern brawl, maybe; the guy in the mill; the Monks of the Sword; incinerating the swamp Rahgu with a fireseed; the rogue miner
Book 9 - Anarian Rangers, the eating house mercenaries, all the guards in tower if you get arrested, the senate guards (if the senate votes against you), and I always felt bad killing the Crocaryx down in the cauldron
Book 10 - you can choose to ignore the drowning ally soldier in the ditch at Cetza, the aforementioned Partisans, plus you're also technically responsible for Sebb-Jarel's death if you take that route
Book 11 - the Yoacor when you first meet them if you can't communicate via disciplines? they attack you, though; any of the Ookor monkey-men
Book 12 - the soldiers and crew on the Intrepid (the ship), by proxy
I'll stop there since I'm not as familiar with the GM series, and even less with NO. But I imagine there are opportunities for murder in books 16, 18, and 19. Also the ship crew that takes you to Ixia. Jeez, LW is a truly cursed mariner.
Also, if you count any wildlife, regardless of their natural hostility, there are a lot more examples. That poor hungry bear in book 1!
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 27, 2022 23:54:50 GMT
I'll stop there since I'm not as familiar with the GM series, and even less with NO. But I imagine there are opportunities for murder in books 16, 18, and 19. Also the ship crew that takes you to Ixia. Jeez, LW is a truly cursed mariner. 18 is the best bet for innocent victims. I will have to check more deeply into that one. In book 16, the first part doesn't have any fights. It's only after leaving Helgor that you start having battles but it's all bad guys or wild animals. As for book 19, it mostly takes place on a planet that Naar has conquered, so everything and everyone there is evil. There is only one possible fight in the first part, in the necropolis of Tyso, but it is an evil entity. |
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Post by Ofecks on Aug 28, 2022 15:55:58 GMT
In book 16, the first part doesn't have any fights. It's only after leaving Helgor that you start meeting having battles but it's all bad guys or wild animals. Hm, I thought for some reason that you can kill the drunk guy in the town square. The "dishevelled fat man". Ah, thanks for the clarification. Even though I remember reading about Naar's influence, I keep thinking that it's just a random alien planet when that's not the case. |
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