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Post by Black Cat on Aug 17, 2005 23:51:38 GMT
For the rest of us, we'd prefer that talented authors who enjoy spinning detailed stories invest most of their energy on us, who like and appreciate being given a glimpse into the author's vision instead of being asked to do all the work for him. The rest of you? The majority of us (7 guys so far) voted that how the NO series was made was okay, which includes the use of a nameless Kai Lord. When I meant to use your imagination, I meant to fill the missing gaps with it (like DF said, but it includes also to fill in the background of the GM), not to simply copy in your mind exactly what the author says. If you just want to be imposed one particular image of an event, then just watch some of those TV shows where they explain everything ("Oh, I'm mad! Grrr!" Duh! Of course he's mad, he is breaking everything in the house!). The link between an author and its readers is strong when the writer gives enough informations to his public so that they can visualize in their minds what he was meaning and also by giving them the opportunity to see other things than just what is shown. I think that the NO series goes a step further than just letting you imagine Lone Wolf fighting Giaks by giving you the chance to imagine a whole character (that is different for each reader) fighting Giaks. I agree with you that I like to have some informations to build my imagination on, and that GM has some things to build on: he's 20 years old at the start of book 21, he was brought to the monastery at the age of 7, he fought the Lavas at the Siege of the Monastery in MS 5077, he is one of the 5 Grand Masters of the Second Order (excluding Lone Wolf) and he is considered as the most talented Kai by Lone Wolf himself. Imagine in the rest! To conclude, we all have different opinions. THAT IS NOT A REASON TO SAY THAT ONE OPINION IS STUPID OR LAME! I respect everyone's way of thinking, and I also expect my opinion to be respected in return, even if you don't agree with me. I see that some members are getting way too serious on this discussion, laughing at other's opinion, answering insolently to someone's post, etc. Let's keep this conversation respectful for the good of this community.
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Post by Dusk Fox on Aug 18, 2005 2:05:28 GMT
I see that some members are getting way too serious on this discussion, laughing at other's opinion, answering insolently to someone's post, etc. Let's keep this conversation respectful for the good of this community. In my case, that's me not taking the discussion too seriously. If I'm casual about opinions (eg, telling someone their opinion doesn't make sense to me, but whatever), then it's generally a sign that I'm not too emotionally invested in the debate, and am not taking it personally.
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 18, 2005 2:24:19 GMT
Well, if the hat fits you, wear it, or otherwise, leave it. If you don't think that it applies to you, just ignore my comment.
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Post by Dusk Fox on Aug 18, 2005 3:08:27 GMT
I was just clarifying that I'm not particularly passionate about anything on this topic. I just thought it made for a neat concept.
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Post by Al on Aug 18, 2005 9:00:03 GMT
If I can enter into this, email/msn/forums etc as a means of communication lack all the non verbal ways the people communicate with each other (tone, facial expression, volume etc) and it is easy to misinterpret people. I am confident that no one on this site means any offence when they say something, rather it is just that because simple text is a poor means of communicating thoughts and ideas that it is easy to misinterpret people. Just a thought, Al
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Post by shadowfalcon on Aug 18, 2005 13:33:39 GMT
well said Al
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Post by Al on Aug 18, 2005 15:27:06 GMT
Thanks, I try
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Post by Runeheart on Aug 20, 2005 15:40:16 GMT
I don't agree with your use of " the New Order Blank Name guy", the start of the book gives two tables of 10 options each (quick math tells me over 500 names), you can at the very start of the book individually name your character, that immediately personalises the whole process, and gives a different flavour to the new Grand Master and now there are individual GMs not 'the only GM with my choice of options' (skillls, disciplines, etc). Or maybe the only choice of GMs should of been 'Black Hawk, Star Lynx, Blazer or Steel Hand' at least they have had a proper introduction and are part of canon. I will agree that it would of been nice to have some more 'concrete' background, there have been some significant events in the New Order to warrant more work,(such as the Siege -book 18- were you wounded, did you rally the fight on the north wall, were you the one overlooked in preference to Swift Fire to seek help), the NO books do well in helping you develop your own group of contacts (known people you encounter) once the books start. To start as an initiate ( more likely Journeyman -8 skill choices, not much to miss out on-), you would have a very 'vanilla' character having lived most of your life in the monestary training. As a GM you would certainly be well known and have your own reputation (not merely LW's shadow). To conclude as a gamer I would prefer to go back to the start, but that's a lot of work and time is limited (publisher's aren't even publishing the books), to start at GM is epic in scope but you can get stuck right into the BIG and dire nastiness of Naar without the need to be councelled or coached ( think Rhygar or the guides in Book 3). I don't like to start the series at GM ( but I see logic in it), but background that helped to define the character would have made it a better read. ( Even the choice of a couple of backgrounds like 'Legend of Zagor' that would have helped to define the new character)...
I'm positive I have contradicted myself, but it's late and I am tired...
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 20, 2005 17:16:18 GMT
Or maybe the only choice of GMs should of been 'Black Hawk, Star Lynx, Blazer or Steel Hand' at least they have had a proper introduction and are part of canon. Makes me think... In the June edition of Rising Sun (normaly available at Tower of the Sun, but the link is broken for now and should be fixed soon), someone came up with a good theory about who might be the GM from the NO series. He based his theory on the different illustrations that are scattered in the gamebooks. Starting with the picture of the 4 named GM of book 19, he played the elimination game, taking out each GM from the list everytime they were appearing in a subsequent illustration of the NO series. Only one GM that did appeared in book 19 doesn't appeared in the illustrations of the NO series. I don't remember which one it was, but his theory was plausible. We should check the article when the link is fixed.
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Post by nigthhunter on Aug 22, 2005 4:22:59 GMT
Very interesting about this theory. But the thing is that I don't remember to have see a picture of 4 GM in book 19. Is that because of the french edition?
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Post by Dusk Fox on Aug 22, 2005 5:57:34 GMT
I don't think they're GM in that book, but rather Kai Masters.
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Post by nigthhunter on Aug 22, 2005 7:29:17 GMT
Good point DF. I remember now, noboby have reach the rank of grandmaster until book 21 in the new order. So they must be the 5 grandmasters of the new order.
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 22, 2005 21:57:43 GMT
Very interesting about this theory. But the thing is that I don't remember to have see a picture of 4 GM in book 19. Is that because of the french edition? It IS because of the French edition. In the original one, there's an illustration of the 4 Grand masters (or Masters, if we stick to DF's theory). We see these guys again in some of the illustrations of the NO series. But, because the French editor (Gallimard) tried to save money, the maps at the beginning of the books stopped to be included starting with book 20, and they stopped the inclusion of ALL illustrations with book 23 (which is in fact book 24 in the original series: a huge mistake made by Gallimard who switched book 23 and 24 together). But, thanks to Project Aon, I also noticed that some illustrations in the earlier books were also not included in the French edition, like the ones for section s249 and 329 of gamebook 8.
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Post by nigthhunter on Aug 23, 2005 10:25:50 GMT
I was sure about the edition. Cursed Gallimard. I have already insigth about the artwork. Another thing I have notice, if you see the Action Chart Pak recently add in Projet Aon, you can see under the Combat Record section that we have a place to write our rank, something that we don't see in the french edition. Also these scroll " Bearer of this ..." is not in every book and I don't remember to have seen one in the Grandmaster series. You make me think of other thing. The map in book 19 is the same than book 2, is it the original?
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Post by Black Cat on Aug 23, 2005 15:49:12 GMT
Errr, nope, unless they had changed it since I bought my book (2nd edition). Book 1 and 2 share the same map, but book 19 has a different one, with dots that represent towns and villages. Another thing: the dots on the original map for that book were numbered and there was a list where you could see the names of each of the locations. The numbers and list weren't implemented in the French version.
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