EP's lost to hunger

[Grignr]

I just started on the books after clicking on a link in a sci-fi/fan lit forum. Everyone who's worked on this project has done a great job.
I have a few questions regarding EP's lost to hunger. Can these be regained during the ordinary course of non-combat sections through the Healing discipline? If not, does eating a meal when not directed too restore EP's lost through hunger? Also can Lonewolf drink potions of laumspur during a combat, or during a combat section before commencing a combat (i.e before rolling random numbers)? Thank you very much.

[Doomy]

The way I play, and I usually try to follow Joe Dever's rules as given in the books, is that Meals are only used when so instructed in the text. I also allow any EP loss from hunger to be restored through Healing.
Other players prefer to reduce their maximum endurance until the text says to recover lost ENDURANCE, which is a little more realistic perhaps but slightly increases book-keeping. Hunger is the least of Lone Wolf's worries usually, since the player will invariably have Hunting before long, and generally you will find enough food during the books anyway. I usually keep Meals in otherwise "spare" Backpack slots and have thus only had to use my Disciplines to find food on one or two occasions in the 16 books I have completed to date. I would think that this would hold true even if playing the books on a standalone basis, but I am yet to test this.
I would also only ever use potions of Laumspur immediately after combat (generally after resolving the combat and before turning to the next section).
Potions which enhance COMBAT SKILL are obviously worthless after a fight so would be used before rolling any random numbers.
Hope this helps!

[The Tagazin Poodle]

Grignr said:

I have a few questions regarding EP's lost to hunger. Can these be regained during the ordinary course of non-combat sections through the Healing discipline?

I'd say no; even as a Grand Master Lone Wolf is susceptible to starvation. See The Darke Crusade, section 156.

Grignr said:

If not, does eating a meal when not directed too restore EP's lost through hunger?

Sounds reasonable; that's how Lone Wolf regains EPs later in the book.

[Ghost Bear]

with the Healing Discipline (Kai Level), only battle wounds can be restored (or physical wounds incurred, such as colliding with something painful in a non-combat situation).

With the Curing Discipline (Magnakai level) any EP loss can be restored.

This is my interpretation at least.

-GB

[longhairyuppiescum]

I do heal/cure EP's lost through hunger only after next time taking a meal. - It seems reasonable to me that only after eating again, the lost EP's may be regained (through Healing/Curing, Laumspur, whatever..).

Regarding taking Laumspur: I think there is no reason at all why a Laumspur potion could not be taken in any non-combat section or even during a combat section before commencing the combat. (The latter is the way for taking Alether, so why not instead taking a Laumspur potion?)
But during combat, I guess LW is just too busy attacking and defending than to comb through his backpack and take a easy gulp. :-)

[Zipp]

Since the rules never mention healing EP lost to hunger by eating later, I would never play that way. I mean, just cause the author doesn't say you can't do something doesn't mean you CAN do it.

Still, do what you like. Some people don't like saving, some people start aaaaall the way back at book one. Hell, some people even think rerolling the die twenty times per combat is bad

[JLSigman]

Hell, some people even think rerolling the die twenty times per combat is bad

Good grief... how the heck else are you supposed to beat the Chaos Lord in book 11? ;D

[Relenoir]

JLSigman said:

Good grief... how the heck else are you supposed to beat the Chaos Lord in book 11? ;D

Yeah, I've done that fight over multiple times until I've 'gotten it right', so to speak. Also, the battle with the Deathlord in book 17, since you're already weakened a bit by Tagazin!

[Zipp]

And Zahkan Kimah, though I killed him dead on my first go, no problemo. Killed em dead. Very dead. Very not alive. Killed him into little pieces.

But didn't you know? You're not supposed to make it past book 11. Book 12 and beyond were just there for show.

[longhairyuppiescum]

Just to make my point clear: I do not heal any EP by eating. But after eating by Healing/Curing/Laumspur...

I think you do have to make your own interpretation of the rules regarding healing because they are just held too general.
You can read them making no difference at all between different kind of EP losses. - You can read them to allow restoring the EP lost in combat by a mighty Gourgaz axe cutting your arm to the bone, but not the tiny cratch you got on your leg from these low hanging branches.

I don't think lowering your maximum EP after losing EP to hunger is the correct way. - Something similar than this this would be the effect of just doing what is explicitly statet about healing in the rules. (At least in the Kai series.)
- Well, other than funny things like only restoring the points lost to hunger by taking a healing potion directly after combat. ;D

BTW things like restoring lost EP at the beginning of a next book or getting a free Backpack at starting a next book are nowhere in the rules explicitly stated too.
But most players will agree with PA to assume things like that.

That said, I am indeed one of those people never, ever rolling a die in combat again and starting all over from book one after dying. - And I DID complete the whole Kai and Magnakai series that way.
(Still have to make that entry in my 'Hall of Fame' thread though... )

[Zipp]

To play the other side, I think that endurance of any kind can be healed by any kind of healing process EXCEPT kai healing, which explicity states combat points lost in COMBAT. I think this is only applicable until the magnakai series, which allows for healing of any kind.

I always kept two different scores, one for what I'd lost in combat, and one for extraneous wounds.

Yuppie, you do have a good point about the branch, but rarely are you hurt so superficially. Most of the time, endurance lost outside of combat is from starvation, mental attack, and really big masts falling on your oh so innocent spine. However, I do know some fans who keep track of physical and mental/starvation damage and say that kai healing can only cure the physical.

[longhairyuppiescum]

(Following is a looong post about Healing. The author encourages you to just skip it, if you are not really interested in his opinion on this!)

Well, first I think all of the possible approches are fine.
You just have to decide for yourself how to handle damage because (as I said in my previous post) the rules are just not clear about this. (IMO of course..)
Yes, the desciption for Healing reads "... points lost in combat.", but only in the first sentence. Personally I rather consider that a kind of 'flavour text'. (After all that's just the common way for losing EP!) The second sentence (possibly seen as kind of 'application text') tells you to "... restore 1 ENDURANCE point to your total for every numbered section of the book you pass through in which you are not involved in combat." followed by "(This is only to be used after your ENDURANCE has fallen below its original level.)".
So, the clearification for not healing above maximum level is given, but a restriction for some kind of EP loss is missing.
BTW: It is interesting to compare the words of the descriptions of Healing and Curing: They are almost the same regarding their application..
In my opinion this gives room for interpretation.

Zipp, of course I get your point of "What's not allowed is forbidden.", but my way is rather like: "Try to get the authors intent and use common sense to use the given rules as reasonable as possible."
(And the given rules do NOT say "... only points lost in combat." or "... restore 1 ENDURANCE point of the ones you lost in combat to your total for every numbered section of the book...".)

(Maybe this is all a little too much nitpicking.. - anyway: ) ;D

That's leading me to just distinguish between EP lost to hunger and EP lost to everything else.
Because hunger is the only kind of damage very different from damage taken in combat. And as far as I know there is no way to cure hunger by other means than eating. (At least not in a setting similar to Lone Wolf.. - On the other hand this is Fantasy, isn't it? - Regardless..)
I do completely agree to "The Tagazin Poodle"'s point about hunger in his post above in this thread.
And so hunger lost EP remain completely uncureable for me - until it's eating time again.
Neither I think EP lost to hunger should reduce your maximum EP, nor do I think Curing should give you the ability to potentially survive any length of time without needing to eat!
Also to take a Healing Potion seems to me no way to ignore the naturally need of the body for food.

On other 'Outside Combat EP Losses':
There are quit a lot of opportunities to loose 'physical' EP outside of combat. (Regardless of their severity.)
And there's just no explanation coming to my mind for not being able to heal these outside combat physical injuries. (Again: Regardless of their severity.)

Regarding the 'mental' EP losses:
Well, it's basically the same for these: you are able to heal these if they occur during combat. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to heal after a combat against, say, Mindblast using opponents. - If you don't heal these - well, that would be straight! - otherwise there is no need to keep track of them separately. (IMO, I might add.)

Ups! - Became kind of longpost. - Hunger seems to be my cup of tea. ;D - Have to add a warning at the beginning!

[Zipp]

Very good points. I'm going to do something I rarely do, I'm gonna concede to most of your points of view. However, I still don't think eating after the fact can restore you, nor is this even hinted at anywhere by the author.

[longhairyuppiescum]

Zipp said:

...I still don't think eating after the fact can restore you, nor is this even hinted at anywhere by the author.

On this I concede to you!
That's why I play it the following way:
Eating doesn't restore anything.
Points lost to hunger can't be restored.
However after eating the next time, all of these 'unrestorable' points become restorable again.

[North Star]

Well, there was always the "If you eat a Meal, restore 3 Endurance points". I always took that to mean you healed *unless* you were required to eat, and if you were down EP from not eating, you could still restore up to 3 EP when eating anyway.

NS.