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Post by bittermind on May 28, 2009 8:38:37 GMT
Inspired by reading other people's accounts of their journeys through the Lone Wolf books - no fudging of random number rolls - I've decided to make the same journey through the Grey Star books (because, well, I've just finished reading through the LW series...). I've enjoyed reading other people's recounting of their Lone Wolf experiences. Let's see if I can do something similar. That's right. NO fudging of random numbers. NO backtracking of paragraphs. NO cheating of any kind at all - even on Grey Star's starting attribute rolls!Come one, come all. And watch this sucker die. In some ways, I actually prefer the GS books to the LW series. I really like GS's background, for one. Far more than the, 'you hit your head on a tree branch' thing Lone Wolf gets - or the even less convincing, 'you fight your way out of the monastery when nobody else at all was able to'. In terms of playability, the Grey Star books seem less randomly lethal than the Lone Wolf books. Number 1 is a toughie, sure, but I can't think of a single unavoidable insta-death roll for Grey Star. And because of the 'Willpower in combat' system, there are NO impossible fights for Grey Star. Even on the -11 column of the Combat Results Table, if you pump enough WP into your attack, and if you roll well (just once), you have the chance of beating anybody. So there are no unbeatable foes. There are no Zakhan Kimahs or Chaosmasters lurking down the line. Well, there is the Chaosmaster... but you don't have to take up swords against him, if y'see what I mean... Finally, Shasarak. What a great villain! The man (Shianti) has intelligence, talent. This man alone defied the goddess Ishir. This man survived the blasting of Desolation Valley when no other could. Oh, the tragedy of his crippling! No shallow-evil slave of Naar, this. What great motives he must have had when first he walked alone - so alone - amongst men! And how that power he wielded must have twisted him, corrupted him! Anyway, definitely my favourite baddie of Magnamund. Even if the final duel against him isn't so difficult. Onto the game... I select my lesser magicks... I choose Alchemy and Sorcery (my two favourites). And... Psychomancy, Evocation, Elementalism. Prophecy I can do without - when I have it, I just tend to burn off WP points finding out common sense answers and routes I would have taken anyway. I have no great gripe against Enchantment. That might be my sixth magick. If I survive that long. (Pause to note down Lesser Magicks...) Now I roll my attribute scores - all rolls sponsored by www.random.org - the only online source of REALLY random numbers. Combat Skill. I roll... 9! Yes!... It doesn't convey well in writing, but the relief and cackling I just vented has already made this whole exercise worthwhile. Everything from here is just gravy. So, CS = 19. Next, Willpower. And a roll of... 4. WP = 24. I can live with that - WP can go over its initial anyway. I've always found the Willpower rules slightly vague, but I figure that 24 is the inital I'll come back to in books 2 and 3 (if I survive that long), plus bonuses. Endurance. Gimme a good roll. And... S*** on me, 9 again. Stunned. End = 29. Well, I'm absolutely staggered. Those are fantastic rolls. The ONE time I swear to stick with my initial rolls, no matter what. Equipment: Shianti Talisman. And away we go: Book 1, Grey Star the Wizard.
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Post by moonblade on May 28, 2009 14:27:29 GMT
Wow. My GS is usually mediocre to just outright lousy. You rolled a tank!
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Post by bittermind on May 28, 2009 14:46:03 GMT
I know. First time I've ever done it without rerolling a bunch of times. Last night I even had a dream that I'd start out with a Combat Skill of 11.
(My dreams are more interesting than Grey Star, normally... but making out a blank character sheet was the last thing I did before I went to bed, and I didn't really sleep very well... just kind of stuck with me.)
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Post by bittermind on May 28, 2009 17:10:49 GMT
Book 1: Grey Star the Wizard.
Man alive, did this book ever beat me up.
A fairly standard start, I think. Wait until nightfall, market, arrest. Summon the old priest's spirit with Evocation - I had to break Shianti law, and I let the dead utterly destroy Mother Maghri's prison.
A detour to see Jnana the Wise after that. And he gave me a silver charm, which would later save my life.
Saved Madin Rendalim. Thoroughly enjoyed beating on Shadakine Warriors, though I lost a few Endurance thanks to a couple of bad rolls.
Then things started to go wrong.
As you might expect, Tanith stole the Kazim Stone from my backpack, and allowed Mother Maghri to send a Kleasa to kill me. That was a tough fight - I pumped a lot of Willpower into my first attack, then rolled a '1'. By the time the thing left - by the time Tanith made it leave - I was down to 2 Endurance, 2 Willpower.
And we lost Tanith. Sigh. Hope I get to see her again.
The Dragon's Teeth. And even after quaffing several healing potions, I was still feeling too battered for close combat. So when the giant Quoku came shuffling after Shan and I, I decided to jump the ravine rather than fight it.
That's a potential insta-death roll, by the way. 0-6, and you die (my Willpower was still too low to give me any bonus).
I feel somewhat geeky recounting the exact rolls I made... but they're still firm in my mind. I rolled a 6. Jnana's Silver Charm bumped it up to a 7. I lived.
Shan didn't. Poor, tubby little guy.
The Cave Mantiz. I escaped from their nest (-8 Endurance as they sprayed acid on me; thanks for that). And I had to fight one of them on the surface.
One round of combat, and then (wise) evasion. And the Cave Mantiz battered me down to exactly 1 Endurance Point.
And then to section 350, and safety. Cheers, Lost Tribe.
And the thing is... I rolled AMAZING stats (19 CS, 29 End). And three times in this book, I only just survived. Should it really be this hard?
EDIT: By the way, I retract what I said in the earlier post about the Grey Star books not being as arbitrarily lethal as the Lone Wolf books.
But I did survive (well, 1 End, 3 WP...). And so, onto Book 2: The Forbidden City.
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Post by Taryn on May 28, 2009 17:25:27 GMT
Yes, GS 1 is brutal. I think Grey Star's lack of a healing discipline is often his downfall. Unlike Lone Wolf, Grey Star can easily die around Lake Shenwu to the constant "Lose 1 ENDURANCE point to the noxious fumes" type stuff.
Basically, I try to maximize GS's EP, WP, and supply of Laumspur because they can't be easily recovered. It's been a while, but I think the ideal strategy is thus: - When you have a choice of the 3 items at the start, go with the Laumspur. The Jewelled Dagger is useless. - Take Elementalism to have a better time across the water at the beginning - Wait to enter town at night - Sell your boat for 20 Nobles (this is one of the only times in the whole series when you can get money!) - Take Alchemy so you can store more potions and buy some stuff, including both Laumspur potions. - When you're in prison, talk to the Shianti priest and give him one of your +3 EP Laumspurs. He will reward you with a dream for 10 WP (that's why the Laumspur is better than the Talisman, which gives you only 2 WP although you have it from the beginning). - When you have the choice, go to Jnana for a bunch of EP and WP.
Sometimes with that strategy, I might manage to hold on to a few EP...
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Post by bittermind on May 28, 2009 18:50:32 GMT
It's far more brutal than I remember, certainly, what with the Kleasa and the constant erosion of Endurance. I didn't suffer too badly at Shenwu Falls - no messing around, straight up the cliff and into the Mantiz nest. Only lost about 3 or 4 End that way.
I miss having Healing/Curing disciplines, though.
And I did everything you suggested, too. Seems the best way through. One difference: I took the Talisman rather than the Laumspur. The potion would have helped me a lot here, but I seem to remember the Talisman can help you with a couple of random number rolls. Forget where; I haven't come across any of them yet, anyway.
And the Jewelled Dagger is useless, as you say.
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Post by Taryn on May 28, 2009 19:29:34 GMT
I think the Talisman helps you at some point if you run out of WP. I go with the Laumspur though. Although on my first playing, I took the Jewelled Dagger because I thought it'd be pretty. It ended up going unused because of the hefty penalty for using a non-Wizard's Staff weapon.
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Post by Dave on May 28, 2009 20:19:44 GMT
I like Grey Star. Reading this makes me want to do the Grey Star version of Seventh Sense... I own three of the four books.
Keep posting your adventures!
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Post by outspaced on May 28, 2009 20:38:57 GMT
But I did survive (well, 1 End, 3 WP...). And so, onto Book 2: The Forbidden City. Not to split hairs, but according to Section 4: "With one last effort of will you use all your remaining WILLPOWER points in an attempt to clear the branch of the Cave Mantiz." So you actually ended the game on 1EP and 0 WP . . .
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Post by bittermind on May 28, 2009 20:47:43 GMT
Yes, yes... but if I'd said 'I got knocked down to 1 End and 0 WP' you might have simply thought, 'People have to finish this book on 0 WP... maybe he was on 25 WP just prior to that'. And then you wouldn't have been impressed by the drama of the last-minute reprieve offered me by the Kundi.
Gotta emphasise the drama, the desperation, y'see. Gotta make it known that this book gave my little wizard a bloody nose.
Hey, this is my 100th post on the forum. Yay, me.
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Post by jellyfish on May 28, 2009 22:30:18 GMT
Grey Star Book 1 is my favourite book of all. Kleasa isn't so tough if you are willing to burn through about 8 WP in the first round to get an insta-kill on it.
The shianti talisman helps a few random number rolls to avoid instadeath in the later books, especially book 3. Not a huge factor since most of those rolls can be avoided, especially since the laumspur gives a whopping +15 WP (+10, then x1.5 after Jnana).
Jnana gives you so much stuff (including the much-needed Yabari ointment and x1.5 multiplier to you WP), it makes the book MUCH harder if you don't visit him.
It's possible to help the Knights with expenditure of only 2 WP by using an exploit due to what I believe is a horrendous typo in the books: you select "Attack the Officer" and it sends you straight to 215 (insta-victory!) instead of the correct section 189 where you actually have to fight him (CS 25-3(Shan) = 22, EP 26, very tough fight comparable to Kleasa who has CS 25 EP 30).
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Post by bittermind on May 29, 2009 7:53:22 GMT
That's exactly the tactic I used against the Kleasa... poured 7 WP points into a one-off killer attack... and then rolled a '1'.
Yay. It lost... 7 EP.
Quaffed my potion of Alether for that fight, too. Also don't forget that the Kleasa automatically drains 1 WP point and 2 End each round... and that even after you 'kill' it, it robs you of another 5 WP and 5 End.
When you fight the Shadikine Officer, you at least have Shan at your side (I think...). Overall I'd say the Kleasa is way tougher.
At the end of that fight I was at 3 WP, 2 End. And then the next section I lost another WP point due to depression, because Tanith was 'dead'. Brill.
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Post by bittermind on May 30, 2009 14:36:06 GMT
Book 2: The Forbidden City.
Here we get a great example of something that doesn't really come up in the Lone Wolf books: ensemble adventuring. Three great characters join for the ride here: Urik, Samu and Hugi. I like each one of these guys. A lot of fun to be had parading about the Forbidden City with your new buddies.
Travelling beside Lone Wolf seems to be, more often than not, the kiss of death. Just to name a few - Sebb Jarel. Dead. Cyrillus. Dead. Irian, Dyce and Fenor. Dead, dead and dead.
Paido manages to survive for a while, but even that doesn't end well. I think Captain Prarg is the only one of LW's travelling chums who isn't hampered by a lemming-esque life expectancy.
So, some good chums here. And even better, they all survive.
And so...
Picked Prophecy as my sixth lesser magick after all. Well... I'm getting quite attached to the Grey Star I'm playing this time through (I'm NEVER going to get such good attribute rolls again, after all...), so I really want him to live. And I figure that, with Book 1 down, one of the major threats to my life now becomes simply wandering through the wrong door, or down the wrong path. And so, Prophecy. To help me through those important multiple-choice calls.
Helped me quite a bit here. When I couldn't remember what I was supposed to do at the mad king's banquet, Prophecy. When I didn't know which path to take beneath Desolation Valley, Prophecy.
But I'm getting ahead of myself.
I answered the Kundi riddle (Of course! The Shianti have mirrored pupils!) and promptly fell into a 3-day healing sleep. It's not explicitly mentioned in the book, but I figure here is where I zoom back up to initial levels of Endurance and Willpower.
Urik became my guide. Lassooed an Ooku bird, and away we go.
Shot at by Shadakine warriors. Put 4 WP points into forming a Sorcery shield around Urik, the bird and myself. What else could I do - I fear random number rolls. Had a lingering afterthought that I should have used a Tarama seed in place of the WP points. But it didn't make a big difference, as it turned out.
Rescued a baby Chaksu - rolled some awesome random numbers in my fight against Shadakine hunters and their dog, in fact. Minimal WP cost, and came away uninjured.
Freed some slaves, met up with the Freedom Guild of Karnali.
My buddies the Chaksu lizards caused a distraction at the edge of Karnali, then we attacked the Shadakine within - I used my powers of Sorcery, as well as a Mind Gem, to brainwash the city's Warwarm - at long range, I got him to strangle one of Shasarak's Wytches for me. A Kazim Stone out of commission, and an easy ride for the Freedom Guild. Victory, yay.
Off to Giyama, the Forbidden City. Picked up Samu and Hugi along the way.
Got kicked around by Shasarak's Deathgaunts a bit - the first one sucked 8 End out of my head without any effort. Evocation and Azawood leaves saved me the second time they came around.
Into the Forbidden City. Humoured the gatekeeper - and my favourite line of the book, maybe, when Hugi says, 'Gatekeeper, would you mind looking after my horse?' (hands him imaginary reins).
Nutters in that city. Nutters everywhere. Prophecy saved me from a sneak attack, but then got coshed unconscious inside a house. Stayed away from the rooftops, though - general rule of thumb in the LW (and maybe GS) books; you have to make fewer insta-death random number rolls if you stay close to ground level.
Samu freed us (he'd got separated from us crossing the bridge into the city). Then we met the mad king and his courtiers. Joined them, at first. Not often you see cannibalism in these gamebooks...
Was aware there was a 'your life and quest end here' choice somewhere in that banquet... couldn't remember what it was, though. Prophecy helped me. 'Yes please, I'd like some human corpse to eat.'
Safety. Exploration. Secret treasure room. And - gasp - found a Shianti rune meaning 'Shasarak'. The Wytch-King is an evil Shianti wizard!!
Into Desolation Valley. Prophecy again for navigation. Some scuffles with scree worms, but then I found the Shadow Gate.
And - double gasp - it was guarded by a Kleasa. And its hostage, Tanith!!
Good gravy, this book is a fine example of storytelling.
I don't really see how you're supposed to know that the Black Rod is the key to getting past the Kleasa. Possibly it's by process of elimination - all the other routes you can take will cost you Willpower, but won't kill you. But I've played the book before, so I handed over the Rod pretty quickly.
And heroically, I dived through the nightmare - sorry, Shadow - gate.
A farily standard route through the book, all in all. No difficult combats, and no dangerous random number rolls. Glad I went with Prophecy rather than Enchantment as lesser magick number 6, in retrospect.
Enjoyed this book. Didn't have the same sickening, 'I think I'm going to die' feeling that I had all the way through the second half of Grey Star the Wizard.
So, success. And onto book 3...
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Post by Taryn on May 30, 2009 14:42:37 GMT
I think Captain Prarg is the only one of LW's travelling chums who isn't hampered by a lemming-esque life expectancy. Well, besides Banedon... The ends of Grey Star books tend to be illogical. In book 1, you have to evade combat (which is usually the worse option in LW because of the enemy's free shot), in book 2 you have to give the rod to the Kleasá, and in book 3 you have to let yourself die in the final battle.
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Post by Wise Eagle on May 30, 2009 15:41:18 GMT
Travelling beside hero:
Is not as death-bringing for the New Order GM: Oriah: alive Kirlundin Marines: alive Gregor Luggs: alive Kol: alive Acraban: alive Karvas: alive Delissa: alive Torfan: alive
Some dies but the survival rate is fairly good. Examples of deaths are Gemulkin, Hulsta, Prince Lemoin, rangers in book 27.
Ensemble aventuring occurs in game book #27, but then all the companion dies.
Captain Cearmaine and Captain D'Val are two other characters who tend to survive all their short appearances.
Irian, Dyce and Fenor: May survive. Actually more common that they do than that they don't when I play. Just make sure you fall into the caverns early, which you need to do if you want to acquire the Firesphere.
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