|
|
Post by Draagen on Oct 3, 2004 7:18:19 GMT
Hi all, just curious about something. I thought it would be interesting to read feedback on this. How do you normally pick skills when playing through the LW books? I mean for the Kai and Magnakiai Series...
My progression in Kai usually goes...
First 5:
1.) Weaponmastery
2.) Hunting
3.) Mindshield
4.) Sixth Sense
5.) Tracking
Book 2: 6.) Camouflage
Book 3: 7.) Healing
Book 4: 8.) Mindblast
Book 5: 9:) Animal Kinship
In Magnakia I mix it up to get Lore Circle bonuses, but usually something like:
First 3:
1.) Invisibility
2.) Huntmastery
3.) Pathmanship (Solaris)
Book 7: 4.) Weaponmastery (Fire)
Book 8: 5.) Curing
Book 9: 6.) Psi-Screen
Book 10: 7.) Divination
Book 11: 8.) Nexus
Book 12: 9.) Psi-Blast (Spirit)
Considering some encounters through the books, it's most likely beneficial to pick skills in a particular order to get the most out of them. Anyone have a better order that works well for the content of the books?
I was also wondering, considering how Joe Dever writes passages into the books for particular skills, and also their inherent bonuses, which discipline do you consider the single best of all the skills for Kai and Magnakai? I woudn't even know which ones to guess, but I'm tempted to say Mindshield and Psi-Screen.
Thanks for feedback in advance...
|
|
|
|
Post by Grayzie on Oct 3, 2004 10:02:16 GMT
My first 5 are generally:
1. Weaponskill
2. Tracking
3. Sixth Sense
4. Healing
5. Camouflage
Books 2-5 are usually in this order:
6. Animal Kinship
7. Mindshield
8. Hunting
9. Mindblast
For the Magnakai series, I first pick the disciplines which will complete both the Circle of Fire and Circle of Spirit:
1. Weaponmastery
2. Huntmastery (Fire)
3. Divination
Followed usually by:
4. Nexus
5. Psi-Shield
6. Psi-Surge (Spirit)
7. Pathmanship
8. Invisibility (Solaris)
9. Curing
I'm not suggesting my way is better, it's simply my opinion. Although I do think first choosing disciplines to complete the Circles of Fire and Spirit in the Magnakai series gives the best CS increase in order to close the gap between LW and Zakhan Kimah in book 9.
|
|
|
|
Post by Relenoir on Oct 3, 2004 15:28:41 GMT
First five: Hunting Weaponskill Sixth Sense Healing Tracking Then: Mindblast Mindshield Camouflage Mind over Matter or Animal Kinship Magnakai: (Almost identical to Grayzie)  Weaponmastery- sword, bow, dagger Huntmastery (Fire) Divination Then: Nexus Psi-surge Psi-screen (Spirit) Invisibility Pathsmanship (Solaris) Curing Grand Master: G. Huntmastery Telegnosis G. Weaponmastery (sword, bow) Assimilance or Kai-alchemy Then: Kai-alchemy or Assimilance Kai-surge G. Nexus Deliverance G. Pathsmanship Kai-screen Animal Control or Magi-magic As far as best Discipline group, I'd vote the Hunting- or Sixth Sense-based skills. More on that in this thread: projectaon.proboards30.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1082663132&start= that I started some time ago. |
|
|
|
Post by Starlight on Oct 3, 2004 17:32:52 GMT
Relenoir, why the Telegnosis for the Grandmaster series? Wouldn't it be wiser to go for Kai-Surge?
|
|
|
|
Post by Oiseau on Oct 3, 2004 19:39:24 GMT
I used to choose anything that would increase my CS first and foremost, and I used to ignore Animal Kinship and Camouflage as they were just about useless, but when I play today, I pick Animal Kinship in Book 2 just to avoid the tough fight against that darn Helghast with the spear.
1. Weaponskill
2. Mindblast
3. Sixth Sense
4. Hunting
5. Tracking
Book 2 : 6. Animal Kinship
Book 3 : 7. Mindshield
Book 4 : 8. Curing
Book 5 : 9. Mind over Matter
Curing isn't really needed if you use the Sommerswerd, Weaponmastery and Mindblast all the way through the Kai series. Laumspur potions are more than enough to restore your Endurance score.
In Magnakai, it's a lot more difficult, since you're not really free to choose if you want that +3CS from the Spirit Circle against Zakhan Kimah.
1. Weaponmastery
2. Psi-Blast
3. Nexus (they made that one useful in Book 6).
Then I complete the Circle with :
Book 7 : Intuition
Book 8 : Psi-screen (useful against the Helghast)
Book 9 : Huntmastery (Fire Circle, another +1CS)
Then I choose whatever suits my fancy, usually Healing (up to that point, I use the loyalty bonus from Curing). The one I never choose is Animal Control.
Best Discipline group -- Psi/Kai-Surge.
Worst Discipline group -- Animal Kinship/Control, except for that one time in Book 2 where it's almost required.
The Oiseau
|
|
|
|
Post by Relenoir on Oct 4, 2004 0:29:54 GMT
Relenoir, why the Telegnosis for the Grandmaster series? Wouldn't it be wiser to go for Kai-Surge? I tend to find the ESP disciplines very handy most of the time, and usually have good enough equipment to not have to worry about having Kai-surge until later, since I can still use Psi-surge for +6/1EP per round in most situations. |
|
|
|
Post by Grayzie on Oct 4, 2004 8:10:30 GMT
I used to choose anything that would increase my CS first and foremost, and I used to ignore Animal Kinship and Camouflage as they were just about useless, but when I play today, I pick Animal Kinship in Book 2 just to avoid the tough fight against that darn Helghast with the spear. Heh heh, yep that's why I also choose Animal Kinship for book 2. I'd rather pick Hunting of Mindshield but since I can't rely on my poor memory to find the magic spear as a safeguard I usually take AK. |
|
|
|
Post by Nathan P Mahney on Oct 5, 2004 0:56:35 GMT
I used to go solely for the CS bonuses, but now it depends on what I roll at the start. Assuming that I roll an adequate CS, these are the Disciplines I choose:
1) Sixth Sense
2) Healing
3) Animal Kinship
4) Tracking
5) Camouflage
Book 2, Discipline 6) Hunting (to avoid the gnadurn sap)
Book 3, Discipline 7) Mindshield (helps me fight the Helghast)
Book 4, Discipline 8) Mind Over Matter (just because)
Book 5, Discipline 9) Mindblast
Discipline 10) Weaponskill
I generally go for the ones that provide more story options, rather than the bonuses. That tactic goes out the window for the Magnakai books, though, as the Zakhan necessitates you beefing up your character. I don't have a set progression for those, though. I like to mix them up a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Starlight on Oct 5, 2004 3:56:48 GMT
Well, the Magnikai series pretty much forces you to go in a specific order due to Lore Circle bonuses. Book 9 requires Fire and Spirit, most will get Weapon Mastery in Bow i book 6 for a secure chance at the Silver Bow of Duadon (I think it's more challenging without, I got it the first time without but it's a feat I bet I can't duplicate)
So for Magnikai series, it's pretty much (if you're going for items)
Fire/Spirit
Solaris
Curing
If you're going for story, I'd rather take Animal Control, as the animal kinship/control/mastery seem to add more to the story.
Grand Master series has...
HuntMastery and Assimliance
(The other two depend on whether or not you are playing loyalty bonuses)
and Kai-Surge and Kai-Alchemy (or dilverance)
I don't know enough about the rest of the series to fathom a guess at the rest. The Kai series is pretty lenient on your discipline choices though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ofecks on Oct 8, 2004 4:33:14 GMT
Kai:
- Healing (you can never have too much EP to throw around)
- Camuflage (useful in many places in all 5 books)
- Hunting (bringing a bag lunch is for weenies)
- Mindshield (a solid offense wins battles, a solid defense wins wars)
- Tracking (so I don't get lost)
book 2 - Animal Kinship (forget that 22CS Helghast for the Magic Spear)
book 3 - Sixth Sense (I need this to get the +4 Alether)
book 4 - Mindblast (+2!)
book 5 - Mind Over Matter (meh)
Weaponskill is a big gamble for only 2 extra CS. You may never come across your skilled weapon in the entire series, and it's especially moot if you're playing w/ the Sommerswerd.
Magnakai:
- Weaponmastery (unlike the Kai series, this is helps tremendously, especially with the bow and/or if you play with dual-weapons)
- Huntmastery (useful all-around, plus it completes the Circle of Fire)
- Nexus (for the unavoidable graveyard battle)
book 7 - Curing (poisonous enemies really really suck)
book 8 - Pathsmanship (detecting ambushes is a big help)
book 9 - Psi-Surge (just for you, Kimah... [pregnant dog])
book 10 - Psi-Screen (yup)
book 11 - Divination (+3! And you really, really need it)
book 12 - Invisibility (pretty much interchangable with Animal Conrol, but Invis is a lot more useful in book 12, plus the CS bonus)
I have no idea about the GM series yet. I'm gonna have to wait until all the PA releases are out. What I do know is you'd better have Kai-Screen by the time you get to book 16, since it's easy to attract the Acolyte Elders' unwanted attention (that's how I died playing the WIP). Kai-Alchemy seems to be pretty useful, too.
|
|
|
|
Post by StarLight on Oct 10, 2004 1:31:40 GMT
Okay, here's my choices for the highest survival rate in the Grand Master series. This is assuming of course, you don't like cheating.
For book 13, Assimilance and huntmastery are a must, for the end of the book and they help greatly throughout. Kai-Alchemy or Magi Magic are also needed, because having either one of those avoids another unavoidable death sequence. In order to safely escape Exterminus, you should either have Alchemy and Magic magic or you can substitute pathmanship for one or the either.
For book 14, Diliverance is almost a sure choice if you don't have loyalty bonuses. But you probably do!
Book 15 requires pathmanship, if you are playing by the rules that fatigue is uncurable.
Book 16 has you up against a lot of psychic attacks, Kai-screen is almost a sure choice. It can save you in a lot of barely avoidable circumstances. Having nexus by this time helps alot, as does having Kai-alchemy.
Book 17 requires that you have Kai-surge (against the vile undead; there's an ecspecially tough battle that you can't even use the sommerswerd for! but if you have Kai-surge you can skip it entirely!) , there's no other possible way. There are also a few fights that having Grand WeaponMastery is a much needed choice as it has a 50% of reducing the chance of you getting instantly killed.
Book 18 the best choice is Magi Magic, even if it's only to slay the dragon at the end of the series. Weapon Mastery also helps a ton.
To summarize things, the best choices for a highest survival rate through the series is...
Original Disciplines:
HuntMastery
Assimilance
Alchemy
Pathmanship
Added with following books:
Kai-Surge
Nexus
Kaiscreen
Grand WeaponMastery
Magi-magic
Telegnosis
(Animal Mastery or Diliverance, last book is untested)
Of course, this list makes additional assumptions. There is a list of disciplines for the reader who makes random choices at every non definable turn, and there are the people who already know the entire series mapped out as to almost immediately select the next section without thought. The list for either of those readers would vary slightly, but this list is a blend of those two, people who will actually read the story, make educated choices (assuming a 50% chance of turning left or right, etc.) but have not memorized the entire series.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ofecks on Oct 10, 2004 14:50:58 GMT
Okay, my current run is going fairly well. I'm playing by gloccusv's death rule (completely scrapping the entire character and starting over at book 1), and using the newly-accepted dual-weapons rule (it's only a +1 bonus, since I can't use my shield). I had 3 deaths on the same RN roll in book, when you're running towards Ruanon, and the sniper fires his crossbow at you. I rolled a friggin' zero 3 times in a row.  Other than that, it's gone off without a hitch. I followed my discipline plan exactly up until book 8. I realized that since my entire action chart is on the line, so I'm not taking ANY chances in book 11, so I need that [darn] Grey Crystal Ring, and thus can't avoid Tharro and the Helghast. You NEED Psi-screen for this battle. And possibly Psi-surge, but I won without it. Losing an additional 2EP per round against a tough enemy is just devestating, unless you're using Surge which can put you up 2 higher combat results brackets (if the enemy is immune to Mindblast). As a matter of fact, I hate using Psi-Surge unless I absolutely, positively MUST use it to avoid getting creamed (like the Chaos-Master). Until the EP penalty drops to 1, it's just too costly to use in most battles. So now I'm at book 9 and debating whether or not to take the Dagger of Vashna along with me, seeing as how I still have a 1/10 chance of rolling a zero during the throw and getting killed. With my bonuses (Weaponmastery w/dagger + Circle of fire), the only way I'd die is by rolling a zero. I did 20 test-battles with my CS maxed out w/out the Sommerswerd (32), and I lost two times. 1 in 10. Maybe someone here can run that combat probability program on this fight for me? I'd like one feed with 32 CS (that includes Psi-Surge, btw) and 32 EP (my max, I have to use a +5 Laumspur right before the fight), and another with 30 CS (that's with Mindblast, no EP penalty), and 32 EP. The Zakhan has 34 CS and 40 EP. |
|
|
|
Post by StarLight on Oct 10, 2004 15:27:36 GMT
Hmm. If you want the highest chance to succeed in book 9, I suggest doing the following:
Bring along everything.
Get the Invitation.
Get arrested.
Break free.
Go to the Eastgate barracks
Continue past the Eastgate barracks
Enter the next street you come across
Enter Magistrates court
This will allow you to temporarily lose your Sommerswerd, Silver Oak Bow, and Dagger of Vashna. Once you get the Psychic Ring, defeating the Boss of the book should be a LOT easier.
As for the lodestone battle...
How many crowns do you have at this point? I usually have 50, so I just bypass the inn, pay for the fortune telling, and pay for the Grey Crystal Ring.
I hope any of this helps, and best of luck to you.
|
|
|
|
Post by StarLight on Oct 10, 2004 15:33:17 GMT
Ah, I misunderstood your question about the Zahkan, my apologies.
I would list my Kai Disciplines for the first 5 of the series, but I'm afraid since the paths branch out in so many different ways I choose my choices *solely* for storyline and what I feel Lone Wolf should have at that point.
But, if anyone is playing by the scrapping the character every time you die rule, those disciplines listed for the GrandMaster series will do wonders for you, my only other suggestion for the GrandMaster series is to always have a rope on hand...
|
|
|
|
Post by Ofecks on Oct 10, 2004 23:31:12 GMT
This will allow you to temporarily lose your Sommerswerd, Silver Oak Bow, and Dagger of Vashna. Once you get the Psychic Ring, defeating the Boss of the book should be a LOT easier. I'm not even bringing the Sommerswerd with me. And I don't plan to get arrested, because I hate doing confiscation/imprisonment scenarios. With the Psychic Ring, Kimah's CS drops 10 points, plus I can use Mindblast/Psi-Surge. I know what I'm doing.  It's still going to be a tough fight. From my test battles, I have a 10% chance of losing. Nope. That isn't the battle I'm talking about. If you go inside Tharro, you have to fight a Helghast. A really, really nasty Helghast. The event is unavoidable. If you have the Sommerswerd, its stats are 38/45. The only way to get the Crystal Ring is to go inside Tharro. I'm trying to one-life the series, so I need every available CS bonus in book 11 (which, as you know, is just brutal) I can muster. I do the Lodestone battle and meet Jako at the inn, too. I'm a cheapskate. ;D |
|
Other than that, it's gone off without a hitch.
It's still going to be a tough fight. From my test battles, I have a 10% chance of losing.