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Post by pi4t on Jun 14, 2010 17:09:22 GMT
I think if you download it, then right click on the page you want to edit and click open with, open office has a program that can edit it. It will look different, but at least it's there...
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Post by egleris on Jun 14, 2010 21:31:02 GMT
Yup! Just checked, and yes, it is actually possible to modify the various sections files; I tried to click with the right button of the mouse, then select edit (I think... mine is not in english, however the command is the second from the top), and it opened the file with office word, so it is something almost anybody might do if he wanted, right? So, I was thinking, my project do is feasible, after all; it would just be a matter of planning all the added/modified sections, writing then, and making them downloadable as a sort of expansion pack, with a file explaining how to make the connections work! So, it is feasible witout being clunky, and that resolve point 1.
On to point 2: does anybody is willing to help/work on this? Because I can grant everybody, it isn't something I can do alone.
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Post by pi4t on Jun 15, 2010 16:48:58 GMT
If you've managed to work out how to edit it and still look like PA (when I do it the stuff at the top vanishes, and the links don't highlight when you hover over them), then please say how!
I'd be willing to help for a while, though I'd probably get bored and give up before the end!
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Post by Zipp on Jun 15, 2010 18:32:07 GMT
I'm willing to help with ideas and structure, but I just don't have enough time to do the actual writing.
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Post by egleris on Jun 15, 2010 18:37:11 GMT
Even if it is just the start, any help is better than nothing, isn't it? About the modifies, I just entered my cartel "01fftd", right clicked the "sect.97" file, clicked on the second option (again, my is not the english version, but I do suppose it is "edit", is the one right under "open"), and it opened it; there I added the line "to fight it as a legendary fight, turn to 1A". When I open it normally, the links do highlights when i pass over them, and the entire outline is the same, save for the number 97, which is now over the text instead that on the circle in the project aon header; but the header, the images and the lower buttons are all still there. I'm not sure why only the number was moved, nor why your removed the highligths... in mine, even the new link is highlighted. The only thing I could think of is the program you used; mine is Microsoft office word 2003 version, maybe your is older? Other then that, I've not idea, unless you moved the file? If you changed the cartel, then I suppose it could lose the link to the header and the button; in mine they are file in the same cartel. Anyway, if you're willing to help, I' ready! What help you're thinking about? Writing, planning, editing...? I'm as open to suggestion as it is possible to be. Just post your suggestion so we could discuss them! Everybody willing can do that. I've already posted my ideas in the first post, so if you wish to discusse them (even to reject them - that's the main objective, to sort out what's good and what isn't!), just do it!
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Post by pi4t on Jun 15, 2010 19:48:02 GMT
Saying 'the second one down' isn't much help, on my vista it says 'scan using spybot search and destroy'! I use open office, and I can't get it to work. It's another MW/OO conversion problem. Normally they go the other way, though... Now to review your ideas: Good idea, but only have one or the other. Nope, it's not like you have very much at that point, and it makes you rebuild your equipment and get new weapons, which is fun. First of all, it's 'lose', unless you mean that you cause it to cease to be tight Second, I think that it should be easier to find the seal, with opportunities whichever first choice you make. I have a few ideas for that, having played through the (so far) first six books with a friend, rather like Zipp but face to face, and thought of a few things to make a sequence to get back the seal. If you miss it, you should just get a passage that says something like 'without the SoH you cannot complete your mission. You lost.' when you enter the coach. Like it! And also, you should make the reader turn to a new reference if they make the wrong choice (after defeating their enemy) where the assassin throws a dagger at them as they flee that hits for a permanent reduction of 1CS! No, specially if you have the magic ring idea. It'll make the book even more linear The extended fight does this. See above. The instant failure would make this impossible, and besides, why would the SoH be following you about??? Agree on that one. If you make the correct choices, maybe needing sixth sense, you can have a 5/10 chance of getting away with an endurance loss and no fight. How about reducing it to +2 or something, but give it a special bonus against undead and darklords. Do similar things for other weapons (like in 7th sense) Perhaps, although your previous suggestion could reduce the need for that. Other options: Design more battles like Zipp's. Add another route from Ragadorn to Port Bax, and more stuff from Port Bax to Hammerdal. My situation is rather like Zipp's, though I could do some writing.
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Post by egleris on Jun 15, 2010 20:31:01 GMT
So... why one or the other, and not both? Just curious I know it's lose, I simply pushed the button too hard. As for the Seal, i tought that, wichever choiche you make, you should al least end at the tavern and see there the fishmen in any possible path, since it is the thing that make more sense; I also tought that you should have the chance to wait until they exit the tavern to follow them witout causing a fight in the tavern... it is simply not logical for Lone Wolf to "forget" about the Seal. But I agree, it could be good to have you die the moment you are on the coach if you miss the ring... I think this will be one of the more important point, I want the opinion of as many people as possible about the Seal loss. Interesting that... but wouldn't that be too severe a punishment, particulary if you have a low CS? Maybe a -5 permanent END loss would be better... what do you think? Why more linear? Wouldn't that be less linear? You meet the man unless you can survive not meeting him... it make sense to me. Or alternatively, offer another path where you can get the Spear? Yeah, but I would prefer that to be a normal fight so to have an extended one with Vonatar... so that would need to be re-elaborated. Yeah, the insta-death remove the need for this. You're also right about the fact that the Seal shouldn't be following you... I just tought that our dear killer would have bought it from the fishermen to try and stole the Sommerswerd for Vonatar. Yes, that would be one of my suggested modifies... I was also thinking about using a combination of Mindshield and Camouflage to escape the Helgasth when you met it, or using a combination of Tracking and Sixth Sense to avoid it altogheter, by choosing a secret path were you found a tough inconter, but no Helghast; that was my idea, obviously still having the Animal Kinship option. I tought it that way because it would mean that a Sommerswerd player would be in the 20-25 CS range, while the non-Sommerswerd player would be in the 10-19 CS range; so that the sword make it somehow easier, but not too much, and also nothing like the 18-27 CS range it give in the original... it's part of a long term balancement project that include the reduction of a good numebr of CS bonus (chiefly the weaponskill and shield ones), the increase of others (like making the Dagger of Vashna a +1, usable like a shield together with weapons other than the Sommerswerd), and the inclusion of a series of lower-level magic weapons with bonus ranging from +1 to +4... but that's a long and complex matter, and I would need a specific post to detail my toughts on it; if you want it, just ask, otherwise we could simply discuss what would be the right bonus for the Sommerswerd without any added considerations. The reduction of the Sommerswerd power? But as long as it do doube damage to the undead (and that's crucial in several situations, like the end of book 8), there is a need of making the final part of the book being just as challenging as the rest somehow... the final is an anticlimax already, but by making the death hulk battle hard enough, it would be satisfying as a closure instead that irritating. Also, if somebody explain me how to upload something so that other can download it, I would post the flowchart I made for the final death-hulk battle, so that other can examinate it and give me their opinions.
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Post by Zipp on Jun 16, 2010 0:50:48 GMT
Some quick thoughts...
Seal of Hammerdal:
I agree it should be impossible to leave Ragadorn without finding your stolen Seal. After all, what warrior would just ignore the loss of the most important item in their possession?
Ring of Evil:
I like this a lot. Just put it on the path where you don't get the spear. Meet a Cener in the woods, or something, a forced encounter. If the encounter is hard enough, you don't need a permanent reduction in stats. I dislike the permanent reduction idea.
If you wanted to avoid "just another battle" it could be a choice of fighting or evading, with evading leading a section where you can get nailed in the back with a dagger with appropriate consequences.
Sommerswerd:
What I did in the MSN game, that works REALLY well, is to give the Sommerswerd a +4 damage bonus but no CS bonus. This keeps all the fights at the same level of difficulty but tends to end them sooner. Put another way, LW's damage taken is not reduced, but enemies take the same amount of damage as they would if he had the +8CS bonus.
Of course, +4 should only be applicable if he actually deals damage in a round.
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Post by egleris on Jun 16, 2010 1:00:53 GMT
Adding +4 Damage is the same damage output that a +8 CS? I never noticed that... strange, I would have expected it to be an higher difference. That's something that could work too, yes.
About the ring, I initially inserted it as a prize for fighting the right guy in the Gorn Cove section; I suppose it would be easy enough to put it on an alternative path from the spear instead, but that will bring back the problem of Gorn Cove, that you are not punished if you fight the wrong guy (unless your wrong guy are the White Mountain Knights, in wich case you are just dead.) The -1 CS Pit4 suggested was another way to deal with the same problem... you what would suggest, Zipp?
Also, I figured the ring as such:
Snake Ring, -1 CS, treat any weapon you use as if it is a magical weapon.
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Post by pi4t on Jun 16, 2010 16:24:51 GMT
Both would make it too easy and complicated, having one discipline (hunting) giving a bonus means that the player still has a chance to be injured with it, just not die. Adding 1 due to sixth sense could be done, too. I have an idea which will involve choosing which of the three thieves to pursue, each carrying different items. If you're stupid enough not to go for the Seal, there will still be a way of getting it involving Sixth Sense, a Helghast, and some unbreakable, unmoveable glass! -1CS isn't actually that much worse than -5E, it might even be better, (it'll only affect you for less than one in two fights whereas the -5E is a quarter to a sixth of your endurance). And it'll scale as your stats and enemies' stats increase in later books. And JD doesn't consider a -1CS penalty to high a punishment for making a bad choice (graveyard of the ancients, anyone?). And besides, what if you have a low endurance? Besides, there's no reason that anyone paying attention should get it wrong (unless they fled from the harbour thugs, of course). You know in book 11 how, no matter what choices you make, you tend to end up following the same route? That made the book unpopular, and made people all the more angry about the CM, because there wasn't much replay value (they couldn't explore different areas). This would be a similar situation. Besides, that idea makes about as much sense as the Seal following you around. The magic ring could easily be put in the original place, and you'd have to decide (knowing what's coming) whether you want a tough helghast fight, or a temporary -1CS penalty. Eh? What's wrong with having two extended fights??? I think we'd better work out what bonuses most weapons give at the same time. Here's a list mainly made by someone else (I forget who, sorry whoever it was!) which I added a few to: Maybe not have the animal kinship option, thus disposing of the 'what should lead where with the giving away magic spear' question. I understand. More tactical choice, not tougher combats I'm not sure how you upload it directly, but if you go to image shack and upload it there, then (depending on the browser you use) right click on it and either go for 'view image' and then copy the url, or just click 'copy image url', you can then click on the picture button in the reply screen and paste the url between the tags. Hope you understood all that
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Post by Zipp on Jun 16, 2010 20:05:28 GMT
About the ring, I initially inserted it as a prize for fighting the right guy in the Gorn Cove section; I suppose it would be easy enough to put it on an alternative path from the spear instead, but that will bring back the problem of Gorn Cove, that you are not punished if you fight the wrong guy (unless your wrong guy are the White Mountain Knights, in wich case you are just dead.) The -1 CS Pit4 suggested was another way to deal with the same problem... you what would suggest, Zipp? I think it's two separate issues. The issue with the spear is that choosing the wrong path doesn't kill you for a long time, but ultimately dooms you to an almost-certain death in the tunnels. Perhaps the correct answer here isn't another way to get the spear but instead another way into Durenor? Maybe a dangerous climb over the mountains? If we're going all-out and rewriting whole sections, then I suggest a bigger fix for the Gorn Cove situation. Picking the wrong fight in Gorn Cove leads to a different escape, perhaps an escape aided by Parsion, who then later back stabs you. In my own MSN version, I brought Parsion back as a reoccuring villain when she didn't confront him in the inn. Of course, there's an easily supported argument that Lone Wolf, after killing the wrong person at the inn, simply outstrips Parsion. After all, Parsion was going to try to kill him that night... after that, Lone Wolf kills an innocent and dissapears into the forest. Hard to catch up with him, you know?
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Post by egleris on Jun 16, 2010 20:48:19 GMT
Oh, I hadn’t thought of uploading it as an image! That’s good, I will try.
About the weapons aspect, since you found it should be addressed by examining all the weapons together, I will post my elaborate thought process about it.
First of all, I was thinking about reducing the weaponskill and mindblast bonus to +1 CS instead then of +2. That, coupled with a reduction in power of all the others CS bonus, would made the CS grow following a less steep curve, as such removing the need for notably tougher fights in the follow up of the series.
Since the problem also address the Magnakai books, I would add that the mindblast/weaponskill reduction should be repeated, with the psy-surge and weaponmastery bonus being reduced, and specially the reduction of the weaponmastery bonus, instead that on all weapon, on just a max of four, adding one every two books; starting with one on book 6, two on book 8, three on book 10 and finally four in book 12; since the one for weaponskill is random, you should chose the weaponmastery ones so as not to overlap, having a total of 5 by the end of book 12, one of which is the random one from the Kai series.
So, I thought that, if the weaponmastery bonus is +2 in the Magnakai series, becoming +3 in either book 11 or 12, it would change the entire outlook of the weapons discussion, with just a couple of tweaks.
First of all, you should get the Sommerswerd weaponskill bonus only if you’re skilled in sword; that open space for expanding the set of magical weapons in such a way as to make a total of 10 magical weapons; one for type.
We already have:
For Dagger Dagger of Vashna For Sword Sommerswerd, Helshezag For Mace Jewelled Mace For Axe none For Short Sword none For Warhammer Bronin Warhammer For Broadsword Ironheart Broadsword For Quarterstaff none For Spear Magic Spear For Bow Silver Bow of Duadon
So, we should need to add a Short Sword, an Axe, and a Quarterstaff.
Together with the reduction in CS power of the mindshield and weaponskill, I think that the bonus of the shield should also be brought down to +1. That also reduce the max total you can get with Sommerswerd + Shield, from +12 CS just in the Kai Series, +16 even at the end of the Magnakai series, to a mere +9 MAX at the end of the Magnakai series.
This is what I planned:
For Dagger Dagger of Vashna +1 CS, +3 CS vs Darklords, -3 END at start combat, shield For Sword Sommerswerd +5 CS, double damage undead, stops magic For Sword (II) Helshezag +3 CS, +5 CS vs Darklords, -1 END per combat round For Mace Jewelled Mace +1 CS, +3 CS vs reptiles For Axe Crystal Axe in LW 3? +1 CS, +3 CS vs mages For Short Sword Runic Rapier in LW 7 or 8? +2 CS, but you don’t lose it if you lose all weapons For Warhammer Bronin Warhammer +1 CS, +3 CS vs armoured foes For Broadsword Ironheart Broadsword +4 CS, +2 END if you roll 1 in combat For Quarterstaff Cener D. Rod in LW 9 or 10? +4 CS, -2 END if you roll a even number in combat, +1 damage For Spear Magic Spear +3 CS, +1 damage vs undead For Bow Silver Bow of Duadon +3 RNT when you roll for bow
So, this way, the Sommerswerd is still the best weapon you can have, since with the shield it give you a +6 CS, and then you can add weaponskill/weaponmastery bonus… but only if you have sword. This make the random roll for Weaponskill more important, but also mean that, if you don’t choose sword in the Magnakai series, you can have weapons that are on par in power with the Sommerswerd in the right circumstances. That mean you can actually choose to use something other than the Sommerswerd, and that if you don’t have the Sommerswerd, you’re not that automatically dead. Then, there is the Dagger of Vashna; I tought that, since it is a Dagger and all, you could use instead of a shield if you want, but not when you are using the Sommerswerd. This would only apply for one-handed weapon, so not for spear, quarterstaff and broadsword… but when you use the Dagger and another magic weapon, you will have access, if you have them, to both the dagger and the other weapon weaponskill/weaponmastery bonus; this mean you can get as high as +8 with a magic weapon/dagger combo, the same you would get with Sommerswerd + shield, actually making it possible to face the magnakai series without the Sommerswerd. Isn’t that reasonable? Since the two-handed weapons are all dmaged by the impossibility of being combined with a shield or the dagger, all of them give some bonus in the fight to balance this out. I thought the system to be fairly balanced, while maintaining the simple aspect that is a key factor in LW fights… what do you think?
However, Zipp’s idea is also good: if any special weapon simply add damage, then it is just as possible a way to resolve the overpowered problem of the Sommerswerd; +4 damage normal, +8 damage vs undead, and scale the other weapons in a similar way. So… which is better? Or, if there are any other suggestion, let’s hear them!
Now Zipp, about the alternate escape route, that’s interesting, and I always thought that if Parsion didn’t die, he should reappear later on… perhaps in Kalte, as a sort of right hand man for Vonatar? And the possession of the Snake Ring would be used to know if you’ve killed him or not… that could work. Anyway, yes, we’re replanning entire sections, so if you can think of a way to make possible a Parsion-aided escape, do tell! I seem to remember that there is in Gorn Cove the option to stay hidden for a day after evading the townsfolk…
About Tarnalin, I think I already cleared which option I suggested to resolve the Spear Issue:
Animal Kinship as usual Sixth Sense + Tracking result in founding a secret passage in the tunnel Camouflage + Mindshield result in evading the Helghast after the attack
Climbing the mountains seems a bit exaggerated… if I recall right, they are so high that even the kraan or any flying vessel can’t get in; how would Lone Wolf manage a feat like that? But if everybody think it could be made possible, I do think it would be an awesome thing, maybe requiring the use of Hunting and Tracking… it’s interesting, for sure.
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Post by Zipp on Jun 16, 2010 21:05:54 GMT
Or if not climbing the mountain, then perhaps he does something else, such as hike south to the Calencut entrance.
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Post by egleris on Jun 16, 2010 21:07:49 GMT
Yup! That would include a long detour... with some added dangers, obviously, but still no Helghast. It could be done. What do you think of the other options I proposed, anyway? Do they seem workable?
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Post by Zipp on Jun 16, 2010 23:49:34 GMT
I had Parsion reappear in Book 4, because by Book 3 Vonotar has lost much of his bargaining power: "You! Former minion! Come live with me in the FREEZING cold and HOSTILE environment of Kalte! I promise you much gold that can't be spent on anything and a Barbarian bride!"
Barraka seems better able to afford Parsion.
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