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Post by kolinovic on Feb 5, 2021 16:50:03 GMT
I'd been thinking for a while about how best to put this, but Joe really did a fantastic job on giving Vassagonia a 3d and real feel. As a misguided rather than outright evil nation, he put in lots of little details in the books which take place there, almost as though he was going out of the way to show that your average Vassa on the street was much like elsewhere. Characters in book 5 like Maouk or Kimah are obviously outright nasty, but then the addition of the likes of the old guy in the bathhouse, the staff of the Hunted Lord, the herbalist, the people of Ikaresh - it has such a different feel to the Drakkarim nations, for example, that it really shows that when Naar isn't the driving force behind the existence of a race they can choose good or evil themselves.
I wonder if this kind of message will be an undertone to the epilogue of book 32 when the whole thing wraps up, but the main thing I wanted to get across was how, particularly for a young audience, Joe Dever went out of his way to avoid being one-dimensional with it, and it's one of the most interesting countries on Magnamund as a consequence.
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Feb 5, 2021 17:44:59 GMT
Yes. As someone who is not white myself, I was very happy with the way Shadows on the Sand was written. Foreign = BAD is a very easy trope to fall into. But Joe doesn't.
I think the only passage in the entirety of LW I dislike from an ethnic perspective is 122 of Castle Death:
When you reach the jetty you are covered from head to toe in the blood of your foes. The sight is so frightening that all resistance melts away, and creatures hurl themselves into the lake rather than face the fearsome straight-backed, white-skinned killer of their kin.
Wasn't a problem to me at the time (never even used to notice it), but in a recent replay of the series, with 202x eyes it does come off as a tad master-raceish lol. White-skinned could probably do with being replaced with "Stern faced" or somesuch. But the fact that that's *it* for books written in the 80s & 90s is awesome.
Also can't mention book 5 without mentioning how great the escape/prison paths are. Some of the best gamebook pathing JD ever did. It took me a few playthroughs before I even found out escape was possible!
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Post by rhygar on Feb 5, 2021 19:05:35 GMT
Yes, good points. Vassagonia was an interesting and intriguing location, a blend of Turkish Ottoman Empire and the Baghdad of the Arabian Nights perhaps? It's clear in Book 5 that Vassagonia was able to go either way in its alliances but had tipped towards the Darklords thanks to the will of the new (morally corrupt) Zakhan. And the apparatus of state stayed loyal to him as many state institutions are liable to do in the real world.
As for para 122 above I suspect it's merely a piece of prose designed to contrast Lone Wolf's appearance from those of his enemies, nothing more. I am sure if it was part of a larger ideological slant in his thinking, we would have seen other clear examples in the books Joe wrote, from LW to Freeway Warrior to Combat Heroes.
I'm cautious about applying 202x eyes to anything at all, let alone older books. I think with hindsight, '2020's vision it is going to turn out to be skewed, if you'll forgive the puns.
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Post by lorddarkstorm on Feb 5, 2021 19:11:55 GMT
As for para 122 above I suspect it's merely a piece of prose designed to contrast Lone Wolf's appearance from those of his enemies, nothing more. I am sure if it was part of a larger ideological slant in his thinking, we would have seen other clear examples in the books Joe wrote, from LW to Freeway Warrior to Combat Heroes. Absolutely, and I didn't intend to suggest it might have. I've read book 7 plenty of times before and it's never stood out to me until recently. |
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Post by kolinovic on Feb 5, 2021 21:12:16 GMT
I've heard that said about Castle Death but never really saw a foundation, given that the residents are mainly beastmen and Dhax etc., though I felt it a bit with the likes of Banedon having to swing into Dessi to save everyone from an enemy they were powerless against, and that town built out of rubbish in either book 21 or 22, feels a bit hmmm
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Post by rhygar on Feb 5, 2021 22:08:33 GMT
Ah yes! That city from LW 22. Have you ever heard of the so-called Zabbaleen people of Cairo, and the Coptic Christians who live in their own district of Cairo called Manshiyat Naser but nicknamed 'Garbage City'? I only read Buccaneers of Shadaki a couple of years ago, and it reminded me of that.
That and the Hoovervilles of Depression era America and the caravans and slums full of families in northern English towns described in Orwell's 'The Road to Wigan Pier'
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