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Post by wildcat on Feb 11, 2006 2:09:04 GMT
That one's probably my favorite FF book. I really like how you start off with no weapons, although I think he could have given you a bit more fear points to work with.
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Post by Doomy on Feb 11, 2006 10:06:42 GMT
I think Joe needs to write a pre-book, before #1, where Landar comes to the Kai Monastary, adopts the name Silent Wolf, etc.... Those Lone Wolf modules for Neverwinter Nights we were talking about recently do a pretty good job of illustrating Lone Wolf's life at this time. Go get 'em, if you haven't already and own NWN.
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Post by Zipp on Feb 11, 2006 23:35:02 GMT
I think Joe needs to write a pre-book, before #1, where Landar comes to the Kai Monastary, adopts the name Silent Wolf, etc.... As much as people complain about the Legends, I do think Grant did an excellent job on novelising Lone Wolf's prehistory in Eclipse of the Kai.
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Post by Dusk Fox on Feb 12, 2006 0:25:28 GMT
I think Joe needs to write a pre-book, before #1, where Landar comes to the Kai Monastary, adopts the name Silent Wolf, etc.... As much as people complain about the Legends, I do think Grant did an excellent job on novelising Lone Wolf's prehistory in Eclipse of the Kai. I can agree with that much, at least, though there's so much about that book that I really can't stand.
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Post by wildcat on Feb 12, 2006 6:58:29 GMT
After the early FF books there are still some nice ones, though I'm not a Keith Martin fan, but the gaps in between them started to get larger. With about 50 or so books out the quality had to vary, and some are really bad.
But with the Lone Wolf series there was a definite jump the shark factor with Zakhan Kimah.
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Post by outspaced on Feb 13, 2006 10:38:22 GMT
After the early FF books there are still some nice ones, though I'm not a Keith Martin fan, but the gaps in between them started to get larger. With about 50 or so books out the quality had to vary, and some are really bad. Keith Martin is averaging a 50/50, if memory serves. Half of his books were very good (the ones I mentioned, plus Revenge of the Vampire), but the other half wavered from decidedly average to definitely mediocre ( Master of Chaos, Island of the Undead, Night Dragon). Of course, the unconfirmed rumours of him being Carl Sargent in disguise--the guy who "co-wrote" the four Zagor Chronicles novels--if true, would drop his average dramatically. I do feel that until Book 50, the notion of later books being inferior is entirely untrue, and its only the final 9 books that suffered a dramatic drop in quality, both in writing, plotting, and editorially, something that Joe Dever complained about regarding his last few books. Publishers weren't interested in these 'kids' books anymore, so they gave them less time than previously. (Apparently, the editors at Penguin/Puffin literally used to play through the books with dice for a large part of the FF series. That comes directly from a former FF writer, so I'm confident of its veracity.) I didn't come into Lone Wolf until after the first twelve books, so I never formed any attachment to Gary Chalk's artwork. I mean, it's nice enough, but I don't see a problem with Brian Williams' stuff, and I actually prefer his maps and small illustrations hands down. I'd also argue that Lone Wolf is like The Simpsons--if it jumps the shark in one episode (or book), it's almost certain to jump back in the following one. IMHO the shark jumping happened in Book 28, with its huge typeset, laboured and truncated plot, only 300 sections, and no proper ending or feeling of accomplishment. Just for the record, I rather like Cauldron, but the following book, The Dungeons of Torgar is an absolute classic, and easily makes up for any imperfections of Cauldron.
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Post by outspaced on Feb 13, 2006 10:41:03 GMT
As much as people complain about the Legends, I do think Grant did an excellent job on novelising Lone Wolf's prehistory in Eclipse of the Kai. Well, as one of those likely to complain about the Legends series, I would agree that the backstory as portrayed in the first book, is mostly very interesting and informative. Despite Alyss.
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Post by MikeH on Feb 13, 2006 13:13:33 GMT
>>Keith Martin is averaging a 50/50, if memory serves. Half of his books were very good (the ones I mentioned, plus Revenge of the Vampire), but the other half wavered from decidedly average to definitely mediocre (Master of Chaos, Island of the Undead, Night Dragon).<<
I must say that in general I quite enjoyed Keith Martin's books, particularly the Vampire ones, but can certainly admit that Master of Chaos was unbelievably bad. For my money, Jonathan Green was the 'worst' writer of the later FF books, which means I have rather mixed feelings about the imminent publishing of Bloodbones. Now Stephen Hand - there is a gamebook author able to tell a very good and innovative story.
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Post by outspaced on Feb 13, 2006 14:19:51 GMT
Oh yes, I'm definitely in agreement with you there, MikeH. As far as the supposed 'mores' of the later FF books, J Green is the purpetrator of the most consistent level of heinous crimes in all his books: impossibly hard combatS (note the plurality), and an over-reliance on chance (e.g. in Spellbreaker there's an item you absolutely must have to complete the adventure, so even if you survive all the combats, there's still a chance of 4, 5, or 6 on the roll of one die that you won't be able to complete the adventure). Oh--I'm off with KM's batting average; I forgot the rather tedious Tower of Destruction; that puts him more like a 43/57 good/bad rank. I'm on my own with this one, since no one I've ever spoken to about it has ever agreed with me, but while I like Dead of Night and Moonrunner (despite it's rather cack ending) by S Hand, I truly loathe Legend of the Shadow Warriors.
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Post by MikeH on Feb 13, 2006 15:33:08 GMT
>>I'm on my own with this one, since no one I've ever spoken to about it has ever agreed with me, but while I like Dead of Night and Moonrunner (despite it's rather cack ending) by S Hand, I truly loathe Legend of the Shadow Warriors.<< You're right, I simply can't accept that. Shadow Warriors is a fantastic book (in my opinion, of course), with bags of atmosphere, something only too rare in most gamebooks. Although the basis upon which you set off on the quest is a little contrived, the story is at least advanced by finding and making sense of various clues along the way, rather than simply by virtue of a fortuitious choice in which path to take. Plus the Terry Oakes cover is one of FF's best. Which was your favourite sub-author?
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Post by outspaced on Feb 13, 2006 19:58:19 GMT
You're right, I simply can't accept that. Shadow Warriors is a fantastic book (in my opinion, of course), with bags of atmosphere, something only too rare in most gamebooks. I know, so everyone keeps telling me! But I find Shadow Warriors to be awful. An awful title, uninterestingly written and dully executed. Completely out of harmony with the pantheon of Gods established in Titan: The Fighting Fantasy World. The characters are annoying. The encounters dull and by-the-numbers. And unlike the other two S Hand books, there's no real Hammer Horror feel to the story; it's just bland middle-of-the-road fantasy. I can't think of anything I like about it Quoth Deep Thought: 'Hmm . . . tricky.' I do like the three Keith Martin books I mentioned, but Andrew Chapman ( Seas of Blood) was rather good, and I like all of Paul Mason's books ( The Riddling Reaver, Slaves of the Abyss, The Crimson Tide, Magehunter), but probably I'd have to opt for Peter Darvill-Evans. Although Portal of Evil is merely good, Beneath Nightmare castle is a brilliant homage to/pastiche of Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos, and Spectral Stalkers is simply one of the best Fighting Fantasy books ever--extremely simple in its idea, but brilliantly executed, well-deisgned, very well written, and a great deal of fun. Some of the atmosphere obviously derives from Martin McKenna's blisteringly good artwork, but the prose, the plot, and the mini-scenarios all combine to make a thoroughly brilliant, quintessential FF gamebook: imaginative, tricky without being impossible, memorable encounters and characters, literary references galore, genuinely spooky writing (the castle on the cliff, the vampire magician), and a variety of interesting locations (no repetitive dungeon with corridors and closed doors here!). and eminently re-readable. All that is IMHO, obviously. ;D
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Post by Runeheart on Feb 14, 2006 0:08:25 GMT
I always thought that Midnight Rogue by Graeme Davis, was a well constructed book that had some essential items that were needed for success but didn't max-out on the unrelated things-to-do that become vital later. The encounters and characters were believable and entertaining. (It was also good to play a gamebook that didn't revolve around the idea of 'the only chance to save the world' scenario.
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Post by MikeH on Feb 14, 2006 8:21:21 GMT
>>but Andrew Chapman (Seas of Blood) was rather good<< You haven't read Clash of the Princes have you? Seriously, I did enjoy Seas of Blood because as well as being an entertaining story it gave the chance to play a different type of character, and a villain no less, which is something the FF format was eminently suited for but which was very rarely exploited. Space Assassin I struggle with though; the whole 'outdoors' section I never really enjoy, and the final paragraph is such an anti-climax. >>and I like all of Paul Mason's books (The Riddling Reaver, Slaves of the Abyss, The Crimson Tide, Magehunter)<< Paul Mason is probably one of the more original writers of FF, but (as has been mentioned many times) the books are just so difficult I met each new FF book with his name with a bit of a groan. In truth, I don't think I've actually completed any of his books without a walkthrough. >>but probably I'd have to opt for Peter Darvill-Evans. Although Portal of Evil is merely good, Beneath Nightmare castle[/]i is a brilliant homage to/pastiche of Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos<< I agree, this is an outstanding book, with illustrations that (like House of Hell) likely wouldn't fit anywhere else but really add to the tone of the story. >>I always thought that Midnight Rogue by Graeme Davis, was a well constructed book that had some essential items that were needed for success but didn't max-out on the unrelated things-to-do that become vital later. The encounters and characters were believable and entertaining. (It was also good to play a gamebook that didn't revolve around the idea of 'the only chance to save the world' scenario.<< I love Midnight Rogue, and I think perhaps in part because it does something which LW does so well, in that it allows you to really explore a place rather than pass through, find some gold keys and knock off a couple of orcs. The book is also a little more realistic in giving you the option you to visit places more than once, rather than the stock "you didn't go there first time, you've missed your chance buddy". I always thought it such a shame Graeme Davis didn't write any others.
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Post by outspaced on Feb 14, 2006 17:10:20 GMT
Graeme Davis also wrote Rogue Mage, a 200-section mini-adventure that appeared in Warlock magazine #10 (1986), and was reprinted in the Fighting Fantasy 10th Anniversary Yearbook (1992). It's not that great. :-\ And yes, I have read Clash of the Princes, which was co-written with Martin Allen, who subsequently went on to write Sky Lord, possibly the best sci-fi FF book.
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Post by jardek on Feb 16, 2006 11:12:27 GMT
I think Joe needs to write a pre-book, before #1, where Landar comes to the Kai Monastary, adopts the name Silent Wolf, etc.... I can see how this would be interesting, but at the same time, would it be a book where you play through with no Disciplines, and just sort of... train? I think you'll find there's also wood that needs cutting. However, your point is valid. Perhaps you could play a magnakai, although it'd be a bit of a bummer to be destined to die to a few measly kraan. I can see the choices now. If you want to send Silent Wolf to cut wood for ten hours, turn to page 400. If you want to send Silent Wolf to cut wood for eleven hours, turn to page 400. If you don't want to send Silent Wolf to cut wood, Silent Wolf takes his leave of you and goes off to the forest to cut wood. Turn to page 400.
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