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Post by Xan318 on Jan 13, 2005 5:42:01 GMT
Hi. I'm new here, so apologies in advance if this is a silly question ...
I just started re-playing the LW series a few days ago (found this site on Google and thought it was too good an opportunity to pass up, since I could never find half the books and gave it up) - but anyway (and this may be a bit of a technicality), I was wondering, how should your Kai disciplines work in the Magnakai books?
For instance: Weaponskill. If I have Weaponskill with a sword (hence the +2CS when using a Sword/the Sommerswerd), I should technically still get the extra +2CS in the Magnakai series, right? But that seems to make a little less sense when you look at the Kai skill Healing - +1EP for every section without combat - because Healing, its Magnakai equivalent, does basically the same thing. So it seems to me that it would be a bit of a loophole - even without Curing, you could gain +1EP every time you turn the e-page. Or it could stack, meaning you gain +2EP.
Er, I guess my question is: if you don't have Curing, should you still get the +1EP thing, or do you somehow lose that skill along the way? And if you do get the Healing bonus, does it stack with the Curing one, bringing the regen effect to +2EP?
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Post by Gazguz on Jan 13, 2005 9:09:02 GMT
I would assume that the timeline for events are pretty much static in the Magnamund Universe. ie whether you play book 5 first or last of the 28 books of the full set it is still set at a particular time. In a way playing them out of order is like time travel, but of course you can't take things back in time so if you don't play book 2 you can't weld the sommerswerd in any of the subsequent or even the previous adventure.
However if you play book 5 first and then book 2 and aquire the sommerswerd I would assume that if you played book 5 again you could use it.
If you want to treat it as an epic then you have to pretty much play them in order for both the story and your aquisition of equipment and skills to make sense. If you want to treat them as seperate stories in themselves then you would pretty much have to start from scratch unless you know the exact condition you will be when you start that adventure (ie CS score, EP score, condition of special items, backpack items, and belt pouch etc).
Of course to be able to play them as an epic adhering to the time line if you were missing a book in theory th following book you should then logically actually assume that you had completed that mission and add an extra discipline... because the timeline would assume you did... but then it is probably more fun to play the game without the extra discipline and then play it again when you get the missing book with the extra equipment/skills etc.
Just my opinion of course.
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Post by outspaced on Jan 13, 2005 9:55:23 GMT
Weaponskill bonuses are replaced not stacked (a mistake I made frequently when playing the books in my youth). The Healing +1EP doesn't stack either. As taken from the Lone Wolf Club Newsletter #8: Hope it helps!
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Post by Xan318 on Jan 14, 2005 4:20:09 GMT
Gazguz - Er, I think you might have misinterpreted my post. I didn't mean to ask if you could play time books out of order (don't think I ever have). outspaced - Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks!
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Post by Gazguz on Jan 16, 2005 10:13:41 GMT
I'm sorry Xan318... I have reread my reply and I really don't know how I got to that reply... sorry again... Fortunately outspaced has a very sensible and relevant answer.
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Post by Laguna Blade on Jan 17, 2005 7:16:02 GMT
Er, I guess my question is: if you don't have Curing, should you still get the +1EP thing, or do you somehow lose that skill along the way? And if you do get the Healing bonus, does it stack with the Curing one, bringing the regen effect to +2EP? Some words of addendum: The bonus from Curing is intangble. For example: SPOILER: Later in book 8 TJOH, you'll be able to save Paido with Curing but not Healing.In addition to that it gives upgraded effect while Lone Wolf jump to one rank higher. The same goes for Delivarance which is introduced in GM series.
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Post by Nathan P. Mahney on Jan 17, 2005 13:43:16 GMT
There's also the written statement that Healing only works on EP lost in combat; Curing doesn't have that stipulation.
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Post by Sol on Jan 17, 2005 18:33:11 GMT
Some interesting comparisons regarding Healing:
The Real Way (probably) - You can only recover points lost in combat, and only when you are not in combat.
My Way - I recover it all - combat damage, Mindforce damage, falling off a hill damage, starvation damage, poison damage, everything. I also allow myself to recover a point for any section where an enemy's combat skill is not listed.
Observations: My way is simpler and easier to use. If you don't use my way, you will have to keep track of how many points you have lost in combat. In a sense, you will have to reduce your Max EP just for that book whenever you receive non-combat damage. For example: if you fail to eat a meal and you are at full EP (let's say you have 25) then not only do you go down to 22, but so does your MAX EP... this means you will NEVER be able to rise to 25 again - only 22. The exception here would be if you have a healing potion or if the text tells you that you can get EP back, in this case you can recover those points.
Another observation: the bonus granted by Hunting becomes MUCH more valuable using the real rules. Without it, you can fall prey to the example above. It is also more important to carry meals.
Further: Mindshield is likewise more important when using the -real- rules. Nobody ever said that enemy mindforce counts as "combat damage." Now if you are in combat already, that's one thing - but if you get hit by a one-time mental attack, you probably can't recover that with Healing.
More: What else does not count as combat? I think if you don't actually calculate a combat ratio, then you are not in combat. So if you get hit by an arrow for example, you might not be able to use Healing on this wound.
On the other hand: If you think that the random arrow DOES count as combat, then you would not be able to recover 1 EP during that random section since it counts as combat (but you would have the chance later to recover that damage).
Conclusion: I like doing it my way only because it cuts down on what I have to keep track of. The "real" way is much more realistic. I think Joe does not get into this since this way, if you are a 10-year old kid, you can play the "simple" way without being confused. When you are older and become aware that there is another way, you can do it at that time if you like.
Curing (the real way) : If you completed the Kai books, you will have the +1 from Healing available for every numbered section you pass though (no combat). As noted above, only combat damage can be repaired. When you later get Curing, or if you only ever get Curing, it will be always a +1, never a +2 (although Curing can heal any kind of damage at all).
Curing (My way) : I always thought you could get the +2 if you had both. Lone Wolf Newsletters say otherwise (+1 only). Still, when I started playing, this was not outlined in the books - and this seemed further validated when I reached Book 13 and found that Deliverance gives NO bonus per section at all (rather than saying "you can have a +1 if you don't have Curing or Healing." Also Book 13, although it mentions Curing, does not tell you how to use it which made it look like this - "If you completed earlier books, you have this power, if you didn't then we won't bother to tell you." So that brought the idea that if I had already written it on my Action Chart that I could have it, if not then I couldn't. So I made a judgement call and decided "OK, of course a Kai Master could heal twice as fast!" Also Curing is really not all that good (until Book 12) so why would I otherwise take it if it was a near-straight duplicate of Healing?
The real truth is that I am quite rules-oriented and if these things had been laid out in greater detail in the rules originally, I am sure I would be doing them. As it is, I feel it is WAY open to interpretation. Of course, that is also the beauty of these books - you can play in your own way to a degree.
Sol
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Post by BenKenobi on Jan 18, 2005 20:07:08 GMT
Ehi Sol, your description is pretty complete !!! When I played books first time, I had the suspicion that the +2 Curing bonus was too good to be real... HINT: Curing is a slight improvement of Healing. In the Magnakai serie the text asks for it few times, and many times you can avoid the use of Curing doing the right choices before getting hurt. But if you don't have the Kai skill of Healing, then Curing is very important to you... most of the books are very though without it.. Surprisingly, the Grandmaster serie can be completed more easily than the others, even if you don't have Curing.
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Post by North Star on Jan 27, 2005 13:47:10 GMT
Well the first three I always pick up are Weaponmastery, Hunting and Healing. However, in the Magnakai series, sometimes I think I can get away with it for a book or two before taking Curing and instead pick up Weaponmastery, Huntmastery, Divination and Psi-shield.
NS.
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Post by Relenoir on Feb 22, 2005 16:46:53 GMT
Well the first three I always pick up are Weaponmastery, Hunting and Healing. However, in the Magnakai series, sometimes I think I can get away with it for a book or two before taking Curing and instead pick up Weaponmastery, Huntmastery, Divination and Psi-shield. NS. Useful as it can be, Curing is usually one of the last Disciplines I pick up. Of course, I definitely want it in book 12 because (spoiler) it is the only way you can get the Silver Bracers and Bronin Vest, but the super-heal ability isn't available until that same time upon reaching Archmaster. I wish it came a book earlier, then you could use it in your battle with the Chaos Master, but since it doesn't there isn't much you can do unless you assume that LW becomes an Archmaster upon picking up the next-to-last Lorestone in Tolakos. Tell me this wouldn't make the CM fight a lot more reasonable! Anyways, I usually start with the Circle of Fire (for the bow and HM bonuses), Divination, then Psi-surge or Nexus, then the other, then finish Circle of Spirit for end of book 8. Next is usually Invis., then Pathsm. for Solaris, last Curing. I skip Animal Control, which tends to save you less than other abilities.
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Post by Ghost Bear on Feb 22, 2005 18:24:58 GMT
I envision Lone Wolf as an outdoorsman. I associate the Circles of Fire and Solaris with the outdoor, hunting type, and the Circles of Spirit and Light with more mental based disciplines.
I always pick the Circle of Fire and either Invisibility or Pathsmanship in Book 6, followed by the other one of those two in Book 7 to finish two of the Circles. Then I work on the Circle of the Spirit, which is finished in time for the Chaosmaster in Book 11. Curing always gets picked up in Book 12, for the same reason as Relenoir.
-GB
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Post by Peregrine on Feb 22, 2005 18:59:56 GMT
I do exactly the same... taking Pathsmanship first for historical reasons. (When I first played the books, jumping into the GM series as I did, Grand Huntmastery and Grand Pathsmanship were always in my Discipline set. I'm not entirely sure why; must've thought they were cool, or expected them to be especially useful, or something. By now it's sheer force of habit!)
On the other hand, delaying Solaris to go for Spirit in time for Kimah is probably a more optimal choice...
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Post by Zipp on Feb 22, 2005 19:33:58 GMT
I go for the spirit (this is the major one, right? +3 +3) boost right away in the magnakai series. You can get it by the second book, and neither of these books requires the use of much disciplines. It's only at the jungle of horror when they really start coming in handy.
As for my historic discipline, has to be divination, sixth sense, etc. I was really into ESP as a kid, and thought this was the coolest thing. I also have a very strong sixth sense myself, and the first time I ever played I tried to make Lone Wolf fit me as much as possible, role playing for myself, rather than as Lone Wolf.
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Post by North Star on Feb 22, 2005 22:42:20 GMT
I like Mind Over Matter, simply because I think that telepathy is cool. I'm the sort of person who takes Force Sensitive, Alter and ranks in Move Object when playing Star Wars. The "real" Lone Wolf, if we can go by the novels (and that is a VERY dubious distinction), has Tracking, Animal Kinship and Weaponskill (definitely Weaponskill, because that is mentioned in Eclipse of the Kai).
NS.
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