Rules Discussion

[Al]

Hi All
I am, like Dusk Fox, fairly new to the forun, and like him would like to add my two cents/pence in on this issue...

Dual weilding is only about the LCF in my opinion... LCF (the Look Cool Factor)... probably the Icewind Dale/Dark Elf books from Forgotten Realms that sparked it

I would like to know if thier is any historical evidence to people using two weapons like that? I can see someone using a dagger in the other hand, but two swords? that is a little much... so much so that I would have to argue that it is a great enough skill to demand another discipline if you are going to use it. I think it would be a totally different skill set/fighting technique.

Anyways, that is my opinion, far too unrealistic, and I cannot immagine how the second weapon in combat would be used as anything other than a shield with benifits.

On another note, my LW just rescued Banedon this morning and will be starting his Darke Crusade within days, wish him luck!

Al

[Zipp]

In old Japan there were fighters who used two swords, though it was a mark of dishonor to do so. The practice was more widespread in Ancient China, where whole schools were centered around the use of two swords.

Not only that, my Aikido instructor weilds two swords like a total badass.

[outspaced]

Fighting Fantasy book 20: Sword of the Samurai calls it Ni-to-Kenjutsu--the art of fighting with two swords. Interestingly, though, it is with a katana (longsword) and wakizashi (short sword), not two longswords.

[Dusk Fox]

outspaced said:

Fighting Fantasy book 20: Sword of the Samurai calls it Ni-to-Kenjutsu--the art of fighting with two swords. Interestingly, though, it is with a katana (longsword) and wakizashi (short sword), not two longswords.

Unsurprising, since those are the daisho that samurai traditionally carried, and comprised the two middle spectrum swords (between the tanto dagger and the huge-ass nodachi).

[outspaced]

Oh yeah, but my point was that it was a normal weapon and a smaller weapon, and it was considered to be a specialised Discipline. I think if Joe meant for Dual-wielding, it would have been a specific Discipline; he would have at the very least mentioned it in passing in the description of Weaponmastery or Grand Weaponmastery, since in a certain Improved Discipline level he mentions that 'you can wield a two-handed weapon with one hand'.

[Dusk Fox]

And you're totally right on that--traditionally, you fight with either two small to medium-small weapons, or you fight with one medium to medium-large weapon and one small to medium-small weapon. In escrima, you fight with either one baston (which is about the length of a shortsword), two baston, or a baston and a knife. Classical dual weapon fencing (sometimes mistakenly called Florentine fencing) is with a rapier (a medium-sized weapon) and a main gauche, which is much smaller (though they can still be as large as a shortsword). It's extremely rare to see someone wielding two weapons of any significant length, like dual rapiers or longswords, and as you said, a katana is like a longsword and a wakizashi is equivalent to a shortsword--we're looking at one long and one short (which is what daisho means--"the long and the short").

It's not unheard of for this to happen (especially in certain types of wu shu), but it's pretty rare, especially in occidental cultures (and Sommerlund is definitely based on a western culture). Most large weapons in the western medieval world were too heavy for that kind of prolonged use, and required a certain amount of muscle behind them--a purpose that is defeated when you've got one in each hand, tiring you out faster and not allowing you to exert force with both arms.

I'm also with you on the matter of it being a breach of rules, considering Dever never addresses it formally. If it was meant to be, he'd have come right out and said it. He doesn't leave out much.

[North Star]

I think that the samurai daisho fighting style glamourised it long before Driz'zt. Remember also the rangers of 1st and 2nd Edition were already two-weapon fighting!

[Al]

That is true, but I think that Dusk Fox hits the nail on the head about this being based on western culture...
I have mentioned in a previous post that I am willing to bend (break?) rules, both in and against my favour, in order to make everything more realistic, and two handed weapon use in a society of knights does not seem to fit in with this, but that is just me.

On another note, the Darke Crusade has successfully been completed, and now Vashna awaits! Only problem is, that once I have completed that, I will not be able to go on to the other books until the great people here at Project Aon have them online! Of course, this now gives me the chance to play through the adventures again and introduce myself to Grey Star...

Does he use two weapons?

Al

[outspaced]

The whole Grey Star--Weapons thing is actually a bit of a confusing mess, but we at PA like to think we've clarified things as much as possible.

[Al]

yeah, I took a quick peek at that, you mean the dagger +1 thing? Gandalf uses his sword and staff together in LOTR... but I am not sure that is what we should be going by, eh?

I like the way he uses his staff though, that is cool, I was thinking that made him quite powerful... even with a low combat ratio, if he pumps in a few magic points (can't remember what they are called) and gets a poor result on the roll (I use an online dice) he can still do a lot of damage!

[Doomy]

And then there's the Tarama seeds, which (pre-PA rules edit) allowed you to get an infinite damage multiplier. Always fun to do that and then score no damage on the Combat Results Table.

[Thomas Wolmer]

doomy said:

And then there's the Tarama seeds, which (pre-PA rules edit) allowed you to get an infinite damage multiplier. Always fun to do that and then score no damage on the Combat Results Table.

Wellll... we didn't edit anything, we added those footnotes saying that this was probably not an intended use of the seeds, since that was the consensus opinion among us (I think?).

[Dusk Fox]

I agree with the PA team on that, as well--it seems like an easily-abused loophole.

[Al]

Wait a second... I thought you were the "Cheatingest Cheater in Magnamund"... what gives, what this just a slip?

Al

[North Star]

Maybe he's just following the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition: "Every once in a while, declare peace."

NS.