Autumn Snow

[milleniumbaby]

Or as someone over at the AS2 KS page posted

"As for his motivation- there were over 220 backers of this, the second book in the series, whhich we only did because we liked the first. In an age of personalised print, short run work and even print on demand, having people willing to back something that doesn;t exist is a place to start.
...
But, as for the character, the plot, the writing (whether edited or not)- we liked it. We'd happily see more. "

[wisestrider]

I didn't buy the books / back the Kickstarter for several reasons:

1. I'm one of those who got messed around a lot with the Mongoose mega-deal and I'm not really interested in paying for things up front anymore - but deliver a finished product and I'll consider buying it.

2. Another side effect of the Mega-deal (and also some ups and downs following The Wheel of Time series) is that I don't really want to get into a new book series unless I'm pretty sure they'll be some kind of end - 2 trilogies of Lone Wolf novel's were promised and both had 1 promising looking book deliver - then nothing - I don't want to spend more money on another Lone Wolf series unless it looks like it might actually conclude / endure.

3. This isn't the first Lone Wolf Kickstarter to end up falling apart after being funded - see the board game. Makes me extra hesitant.

4. Joe was having to self publish in the UK, and now he's gone we've dropped behind other languages in getting the latest book printed - taken with the first 3 points and I'm just not sure the fan base is large enough for a line of physical book's to be financially viable - or possibly there are too many in the fan base that are like me - been burnt by this brand and are hesitant about putting more money into attempts to expand it.

5. I've heard some promising things about your first book so I was thinking I might drop money on it at some point - I was keeping an eye on the series thinking I'd order 2-3 books at once - but the way the 2nd Kickstarter is going means I'm out - I'm pretty sure any potential third book won't get passed the Kickstarter stage unless it's someone else publishing - and even there I think it's an up hill struggle looking at other Lone Wolf Kickstarters (didn't this company have another Grey Star Kickstarter - has that now collapsed as well? - so potentially 3 different Lone Wolf Kickstarters that have hit trouble after being successfully funded - how many more can you really expect to fund after this?). So I suspect it would be another incomplete series.

But it's not all hopeless.

I'd suggest if you do decide to try and salvage this series (and can sort out the rights to the "published" books / get permission from Joe's family to keep using his world) you need to approach things differently.

If physical Gamebooks are struggling in the current market where / how are Gamebooks / Lone Wolf doing well?

Project Aon let's you read all the original book's online.

Several apps have been created by users on this forum to provide "player aids" to help with reading the Project Aon books on mobile / pads - some of these are excellent (I particularly like the Lone Wolf New Order by t0pel - and he kept new books dropping at a consistent pace).

The Lone Wolf game by Forge Reply seems to have done well.

There was a recent announcement of an Augmented Reality Lone Wolf phone game.

Tin Man Games seem to be doing well publishing Fighting Fantasy gamebooks & their own series on the App Store.

All of this tells me if you are launching a gamebook series these days you're better off trying to release it as a game app to run on pads & phone's rather than trying to get a physical book published - that's where the audience / demand for these kind of choice based adventure games still exists.

I mean if you think about the age of the target audience for Lone Wolf how many kids of that age actually read books?

Actual real books?

And how many people that age do you think even find this website?

Printing new Lone Wolf books target's a fraction of a fraction of the potential gamebook audience that still exists (it's just an audience that consumes media differently to when we were growing up) - and the existing fans are becoming increasingly wary / jaded about buying into a new series.

But I believe there is still an untapped audience for Lone Wolf style gamebooks - with one character growing and developing from book to book - nothing like that is really out there on the appstore / android etc at the moment - well written Lone Wolf adventures would stand out amongst other similar offerings.

If Ben Dever is willing and you can find the motivation you could still make Autumn Snow a success - but the best way to get that success is to think beyond the existing fan base and trying to tap into the larger audience that is out there.

If you're not able to code but can sort out the rights and want to finish your series I'd honestly consider reaching out to some of the people on this site who've worked on Lone Wolf reading apps and see if you can come up with an agreement to collaborate on a monetised app (pay per book - but pay a lot less than you would for a printed book).

I think people here might be more open to this approach rather than doing another Kickstarter for a physical book - and if they aren't they won't be the only potential audience you'll be targeting.

I'll be interested to see what you decide.

[stormdancer]

Jan 25, 2019 15:01:04 GMT Oiseau said:

Look… It wasn't Megara's situation that killed my "creative spark". I didn't even know Megara was in trouble until a few days ago, when someone asked me what I thought of the angry comments on Kickstarter.

Back in the day — it was years ago now — it was Lone Wolf nostalgia that powered Autumn Snow. I guess I just figured, hey, forum full of true fans, new Magnamund gamebook series, officially sanctioned by Joe Dever himself, illustrated by Gary Chalk himself — maybe it was presumptuous of me, but I thought it would just explode. I convinced myself there would be massive threads of discussion all over the forums: opinions, comparisons, reviews both good and bad, suggestions as to where to take the story next… you know, the expected reactions from fans of XYZ when new XYZ is released. I thought I was ready for criticism and unfavourable comparisons. What I wasn't ready for, was indifference. I think it was three years ago that Megara published AS1. This very thread has been around for over four years. Reading through it all, I think I count two, maybe three messages that contain, you know, at least something encouraging (not counting the recent reactions to my previous post).

So yeah, maybe I still own the rights, maybe I can do what I want with the series — but would anything be any different? I mean, it's not as if I ever truly gave up on gamebooks, they've been my whole life. In bouts of depression and boredom, I've been occasionally scratching out random paragraphs of various old nostalgia projects, and with the years, it adds up to quite a lot. I do have chunks of Autumn Snow 3, 4, 5… written down, among other crap. Well, in French. But say I finished one of them up. Translated the thing. Then what? Get ignored again? I just wish I could feel like there's a point to it.

Maybe it was expectation that was a problem. I can see how it could be possible to convince yourself that a new series would go "boom"! But ...

There's a rule used in Marketing, especially social media- it's the 1-9-90 rule.

1% of people create (posts, videos, articles etc)

9% of people engage (comment, share, reply etc)

90% of people consume (read, watch etc)

You may never hear from the 90%, but they're consuming your content ... they just don't comment on it.



Sometimes clients say they want content to go viral- you can't make something "go" viral without a paid budget, to promote the content all over the place.

In fact, I've looked at Project Aon lots of times and played some of the books. I've looked through the posts and I've read multiple articles. But, I've only just registered for the first time, in order to reply to you. So that tells you that although I am a collector of LW stuff, I am part of the 90% on Project Aon.



Human nature also makes people far more likely to complain than compliment. That sucks, but seems to be the way it works. So, what could look like indifference could be the silent 90% ...

You've written some books, one of which may have been heavily edited by Joe Dever, who created the universe, so maybe had the right to. I don't know how that worked, or what people I don't know are like to work with. You got Gary Chalk to illustrate it, which connects powerfully with original fans of when the LW books first came out. Over 200 people were willing to back AS2 via Kickstarter, which has turned out to be managed by a "highly unreliable" individual, who spins all sorts of yarns, excuses and nonsense about why he can't ... do anything it seems. None of that reflects upon you.



There are printers who will print short-run and some specialise in books. Some other gamebook authors, like Jonathan Green, manage their own material and engage with their fans via their own Kickstarter campaigns.
They also run Facebook pages around the books. That takes a lot of work, to get some small engagement ...

I know this is easy for me to say, as I don't "feel" what you do, I've not been on your journey or had your experiences. Also, the craze of gamebooks in the 80's has passed. It was never really going to go "crazy" now in the same way. But there are still LW fans who and a group of, although small, very loyal fans for your material. We liked it. We supported it. We want more. We have children ....

Who knows where that could go ...

[stormdancer]

Jan 27, 2019 6:39:34 GMT wisestrider said:

I mean if you think about the age of the target audience for Lone Wolf how many kids of that age actually read books?

Actual real books?

Agree with a lot of the comments here, but are people still reading books, real books - well, yes, they are boooming.

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/19/book-sales-skyrocket-but-authors-report-shrinking-incomes

5.7 billion in the UK. Digital is awesome in many ways, but people still like books, especially hard back ones.

[aggsol]

Same here in Germany. There is a small audience that makes printing paper Gamebook still worthwhile.

[Oiseau]

Okay, fine. This is what I'll do. Just this once, I'll see if I can relight the old flame. Spring is usually my nostalgic time of year, so I should be able to draw at least something out of that. Plus, I went to a Chinese restaurant two days ago and got a fortune cookie that said "Others care about you more than you think", which was borderline creepy.

A large part of what should turn into AS3 was published long ago in the Draco Venturus fanzine. I still have chunks of stuff from AS4 and AS5 lying around, plus a basically complete hors-série that's a whole 800 sections (was originally meant to fill a special issue of Draco Venturus between two official releases). All that in French, but if I manage to complete something, I'll translate it then.

However:
- No promises.
- I cannot pay for Gary Chalk to illustrate, not out of my own pocket.
- I've never run a Kickstarter before and I don't want to wade into these waters if I can avoid it.
- I have no idea how to contact anyone anyway, neither Chalk nor Dever.

So unless all you want are text-only Lulu paperbacks with generic cover art from Google Images (or recycled illustrations from the existing books), I'll need some help from the fans.

Oiseau

[aggsol]

go for it! A text only lulu version is fine by me! for the Kai!

[milleniumbaby]

Same here, Lulu would be fine with we. Michael J. Ward will print with DQ4 Matador after the Megara fiasco.

In my opinion,  It would be best to get either Holmgard Press, or a proven publisher like Mantikore to print the books. Not sure what the legal implications would be to use the LW world though.

[moonblade]

Oiseau, I just want you to know that Autumn Snow’s books are sitting here right next to my bed, and they will not be moved. Where ever you decide to take this next, I’m with you.

[timbit]

Even if your nostalgic trip doesn't result in more of your work being published, I'm happy you are taking it. Just knowing you are having a good time writing and creating again is great!

Perhaps you should also reach out to Scriptarium and Ben Dever to see if you could start making royalties off of AS1 and AS2 now by having them published by someone else?

[Ofecks]

Is there an indie-creator-friendly digital platform for books that you could also target? Ie, Steam for games, Bandcamp for music, that sort of thing.

[phuc]

I gotta say I truly loved playing the AS1 and AS2 adventures, Oiseau thank you for them, I truly hope that you produce 3, 4, 5, or until the story you design completes as you see fit. You have my full support regardless of any other factor. If you need anything to assist please PM me, I'm currently in a relatively unique position to assist and would be more than happy too. And to help with the creepy fortune cookie, I was once a wizard, or was it a monk, or perhaps it was a vampire, ahh it's so hard to remember the future but I do remember (I think) the present. No wait I remember, she was a dragon that lit my heart on fire and I loved her for it.

[milleniumbaby]

So I wrote to the guys at Mantikore on their German Webpage. Reply
"klingt toll, wir sind allerdings bis 2020 schon verplant. Mal schauen was da geht ..."
roughly
"sounds nice, however our current planing already extends until 2020. Let us find out what is possible".

Not sure if you would want to get into contact with them yourself...

[Oiseau]

Mantikore didn't want to publish it back in the day either. The people at Scriptarium had asked.

Let me first see if I can finish the books. I'm going for all or nothing. Then I'll look and see if Megara still stands (as far as I know, they're in trouble but not dead). If not, then I'll see what else I can do. If nothing else, I'll simply do what I originally did with AS1 before Megara offered to publish it — Lulu it.


P.S. Just to set the record straight regarding royalties, Megara did offer to give me a cut. I just happened not to care anymore at the time. They didn't actually rip me off. Anyway, I wanted fan recognition and engagement more than I wanted a cheque.

[timbit]

Thank you for the clarification regarding royalties. I have edited my previous post to remove the inaccuracy.