|
Post by JLSigman on Mar 9, 2005 17:35:00 GMT
Are they not considered undead? I had always assumed they were, but ya'll are usually really good about footnoting undead combat and there aren't notes for those times you run into the nasty things.
|
|
|
Post by longhairyuppiescum on Mar 9, 2005 21:06:44 GMT
Good question. Well, my approach: Undead means to live after having died. Maybe just being animated after death. (Or something similar at least...) In any case it seems to be a prerequisite to once have lived (a normal, means not undead, live). Maybe Crypt Spawn just never had such a 'normal' live. Being just summoned abominations. Thinking about it, the name may suggest something undead but I can't imagine these things in its 'former live'. Maybe that's why they are not Undeads: they may never have lived 'before'...
(I always wondered why the Ghuls are not treated as Undead in Lone Wolf. - According to 'common' Fantasy belief they would be humans who achieved undead state directly (through whatever means, this varies..) without dying.)
|
|
|
Post by Sol on Mar 9, 2005 21:17:01 GMT
Yup, I don't really consider them undead unless the book says they are... but I have this nagging feeling that one of the LW books -does- describe them as undead (though not all). Which one would it be? I just checked - it was not Book 5...
Sol
|
|
|
Post by longhairyuppiescum on Mar 9, 2005 21:32:53 GMT
Sol, long time - no post! I had the same feeling of the Crypt Spawn somewhere being categorized as Undead. I thought of the very early work of Flight from the Dark. (Yes, they first appear in book one!) But found no evidence in the online edition. Maybe just in the first printing of Flight from the Dark.. - have to check. Or maybe I'm just wrong with this feeling...
|
|
|
Post by North Star on Mar 9, 2005 21:40:06 GMT
I get the undead feeling too, but obviously it wouldn't matter until at least Book 3, because you don't get to use the Sommerswerd until then. I always thought of them as minor demonkin anyway.
NS.
|
|
|
Post by longhairyuppiescum on Mar 9, 2005 22:06:42 GMT
NS, you're quite right: it's very unlikely that they where marked as Undead in book one. Since of course it would make no difference.. Possibly it's only the name suggesting..
|
|
|
Post by Sol on Mar 9, 2005 22:13:34 GMT
LongHairy,
Why thank you! Yes, I have been away - didn't want you guys to think I'd fallen off the edge of Magnamund! I have been spending quite a bit of time in Tower of the Sun lately - developing my Kai Lord character called Sol Hawk. Pretty neat!
For that matter, haven't played LW books since the Deathlord got me, but then again, the Quest will soon continue, I shall return!
(Scratches his head regarding the lost reference to Crypt Spawn undead-ability - could it be in Book 12?)
|
|
|
Post by Zipp on Mar 9, 2005 22:32:53 GMT
Ahem, allow me to answer. I am an expert on the undead after all. Crypt spawn are not neccesarily undead. In fact, they are more along the spiritual essence of dead. SPIRITS ARE NOT UNDEAD! They are "dead". Zombies are animated dead, making them not quite dead, thus undead. Same with skeletons. Actually besides these two, there aren't many general groups of undead. Ghouls are not undead. Ghouls have only been strengthened by the blood of vampires, demons, or through magical means. Furthermore, Crypt Spawn are actual living creatures. Oh, and welcome back from the land of the dead, Sol. Er, I mean welcome back from TotS. I never do get on there much. I've got one too many projects started to try and accumulare this many posts on another forum
|
|
|
Post by outspaced on Mar 9, 2005 22:33:06 GMT
The Mongoose Lone Wolf RPG lists them as 'Aberration' rather than Undead, stating that they "are summoned by Darklords from their spawning pits in the Darklands." Confusingly, it then goes on to say: "Legend has it these are the disembodied brains of particularly strong willed prisoners captured and tortured by the Darklords themselves." It looks like they aren't undead, then. Probably.
|
|
|
Post by outspaced on Mar 9, 2005 22:36:13 GMT
Kind of true, Zipp, but then that doesn't explain why Helghast are Undead. I'm not sure that Dever followed any existing reasoning in Magnamund--he just went with what sounded good and fit the bill.
|
|
|
Post by Zipp on Mar 9, 2005 23:00:43 GMT
I believe the helghast are the walking dead, that's why they are so powerful. It's just that they are created already dead, and are obviously not spirits.
(Just back from being flamed and called newbie about a dozen times on another forum. I swear, it's the Americans. I have never ever ever been flamed on a British forum. Ever. Man, now I'm all cheesed off. Imma go play some temple of abshai. Or donkey kong.)
Okay, back now and feeling better. By the way, noticed that LoneWolf signed up. Finally. I mean, the site is sorta about him. Actually, I'm surprised no one took that name before. What's wrong with us fans?!
|
|
|
Post by longhairyuppiescum on Mar 10, 2005 1:11:34 GMT
Zipp, you certainly have a good expertise on the Undead. (Cheer up, bugger! ) But.. (Me old smart aleck! ;D) I don't agree with your definition of Ghuls as a general basis. Meaning it seems to be too much influenced by a special canon. (Vampire: The Masquerade, perhaps?) But I admit being too much influenced myself (by the good ol' original Dungeons & Dragons) in my opinion to treat them as undead. As I think about it, they seem generally be seen as 'once humans' who lost humanity by devouring their own kind (other humans / normally as carrion). They being undead left to speculations. (I think sometimes (not only in D&D) they do belong to the Undead.. ?) Other well known undead certainly include beside the aforementioned Vampire, the animated mummy. The Mummy is mostly seen as a special kind of Zombie, admittedly. But they tend much more often (than the Zombies) to have a will of her own. (Besides beeing more powerful.) Then we have the Lich. But he seems to be purely related to RPG's. (Other than on Magnamund, too!) But if we are talking solely about Magnamunds Undead, we did miss the Vordaks, don't we? They too are Undead created by the Darklords like the Helghast. If I'm not mistaken. Ahh - yes! - and the Akraa' Neonor. I could never quite associate it to the Undead (-factions). But it IS undead and BTW decribed as ghoulisch. ;D A funny fact about the german edition: There the Akraa' Neonor is referred to as a 'she'! - Hell knows why! (And only hell would want to know why! ) - The german translations are really bad in some places! PS: Donkey Kong rules! PSS: But he's not undead! - Just to prevent rumors! BTW is this site hosted in America or am I obliged to spell it 'rumours'? - Not that I would adhere to, but..
|
|
|
Post by Relenoir on Mar 10, 2005 4:13:49 GMT
I agree with Zipp, pretty much what I was thinking as I read through the thread. The Crypt-spawn seemed more a summonation than an undead, sort of like Frankenstein's monster was more of a golem (construct) than an undead creature IMO. Obviously, I'm influenced by the almighty AD&D and White Wolf games as well!
|
|
|
Post by JLSigman on Mar 10, 2005 10:18:25 GMT
Not undead, but a summoning. I can wrap my brain around that. Thanks for all the responses, guys.
|
|
|
Post by North Star on Mar 10, 2005 12:46:38 GMT
Perhaps because we're inventive enough to choose our names? Well Thomas is Swedish (I think - I could be totally wrong!) and plenty of us are British, as is the entire Lone Wolf canon (except dear old August Hahn). So yes, we demand fair rights for Us and Os and Es!! NS.
|
|