|
|
Post by Zipp on Mar 28, 2010 4:48:30 GMT
For years, Book 8 was my least favorite on virtue of me somehow always stopping there and not continuing. To this day, Book 8 feels like a turning point in the series, though it really isn't. Book 10 is the real start of the final Act. I think Book 2 is definitely my least favorite, though. The journey to retrieve the Sommerswerd is an epic one and the story is great, as is the journey across the gulf and the exploring of strange cities. I think it's my Female LW's favorite, or one of hers, for this reason. But I gave her a lot of choices that the single player doesn't have. When you've played Book 2 as much as I have, it just starts to feel dull and contrived. You feel like you really have to run the straight path or die. And just blasting Zagarna at the end without even seeing him... I don't know... a bit of an anti-climax. I added a lot to that book in my version to bring it up to par.
I've always had a fondness for book 3, Caverns of Kalte. The ice wildnerness is very appealing and no matter how many times I play the book, I always feel like maybe THIS TIME I'll make it to Ikaya the normal way, with my guides alive. My favorite book was, for a long time, book 16, Legacy of Vashna. I'll readily admit to having a crush on Alyss and I seem to remember there being Ninjas in the book. But then, I was probably 14 when I last read Legacy of Vashna. Similarly, I seem to recall loving book 18, The Dawn of the Dragons, but I'll be damned if I remember the slightest detail of that outside of some coach ride with a snoring woman. So, barring the return of my memory, I'll claim book 6 as my favorite. Kingdom of Terror was the first book that really lets you roam the countryside. It's also the first book where you meet people that want to kill you for more (or less, rather) than you being the last Kai Lord. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Book 6 puts you in a country where the events are not centered around you or your quest. You are "passing through" and the place you happen to be is a war-torn country. That really brings the whole experience to life and was the first time I felt like... whoah... Magnamund is a WORLD.
|
|
|
|
Post by johntfs on Apr 3, 2010 1:30:02 GMT
For my part I do think of Book 8 as something of a turning point in the Magnakai quest, at least. Prior to that, LW is essentially sort of adventuring for his own sake. The quest of the Magnakai is a personal journey. Granted that potential future Kai may benefit from it (much as previous generations of Kai benefited from Sun Eagle's quest), but in Books 6 and 7, it's still a personal matter.
Book 8 changes that. In this one, LW begins to encounter active opposition to the quest instead of just situational opposition. You also have the introduction of Gnaag and the beginning of the Darklords' final war. And the abduction of Paido and the invasion of Sommerlund at the end puts a marker down on the idea that the free rides are over. From this point forward everything LW does will have a cost associated with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jellyfish on Apr 3, 2010 13:40:54 GMT
Can I vote for a Grey Star book?
Grey Star the Wizard. It's incredibly, brilliantly balanced, extremely engrossing atmosphere. No unavoidable save-or-die, but if you're not very careful you get nickle-and-dimed to death via Willpower exhaustion. On the first few run throughs I could never get past the Mantiz without WP and EP in the single digits. And yet it's not too hard, because I did win through on my first try. Absolute thriller.
|
|
|
|
Post by johntfs on Apr 3, 2010 14:17:23 GMT
For my part, I never had too much problem with the Mantiz caves. The worst part for me was the Kleasa. If you play it the way it should be played, the thing is invulnerable to EP loss from anything you have. So, essentially, you need to just deduct 9WP and 9 EP at the start of the fight. And then you have to survive four rounds of combat at a ration of maybe -7 or so for an average CS Grey Star with Alether.
|
|
|
|
Post by bittermind on Apr 3, 2010 14:23:43 GMT
Ditto that (edit - Jellyfish's comment). The Grey Star books are on a par - at least - with the best of the Lone Wolf books. Not sure I agree that GS 1 is well-balanced - you've got to be damn lucky to get past that Kleasa (and with a rockin' Combat Skill to boot, probably). And for that matter, the rest of the books are a little on the easy side.
Story-wise, though, I think GS books 1, 2 and 4 are stellar - and book 3 is only a little less engaging (and for the record, I prefer Grey Star's backstory to Lone Wolf's, too...).
|
|
|
|
Post by johntfs on Apr 3, 2010 15:22:41 GMT
I tend to agree with that. LW's story is a little bit of a stereotype and puts me too much in the mind of Star Wars and the Jedi. Grey Star, on the other hand is interesting considering what the Shianti actually did. They got this human child and essentially raised him to be a weapon against Shasarak, their renegade brother. Did they bother teaching him anything aside from that which would be a direct use to finding and killing Shasarak? Does he, for example, know anything about sex, or history, or art or ethics? Or did they just cram the kid full of magic and combat training and then set him loose?
|
|
|
|
Post by bittermind on Apr 3, 2010 17:41:49 GMT
I'd say Grey Star probably got a bit of wordly learning... Let's not forget that the Shianti do let him choose whether to go tootling after Shasarak (big sigh of relief all round when Grey Star says 'yes').
So, it's gut feeling for me, but I'd say that if the Shianti are willing to offer him that choice, they aren't simply priming him to be a living weapon. So, I'd guess some knowledge of Magnamund probably came into his upbringing. My next read through, I'll keep an eye out for tidbits of historical knowledge, and so on.
As for the, um... facts of life... Well, Suhn is the first city Grey Star ever sees... he's certainly never seen an actual, real-life woman before. Maybe the Shianti gave him a few biology lessons somewhere along the line. But then, do they even make babies the same way that humans do?
Hmm... starting to sound geeky, now. Over and out, I think.
|
|
|
|
Post by jellyfish on Apr 3, 2010 20:43:36 GMT
For my part, I never had too much problem with the Mantiz caves. The worst part for me was the Kleasa. If you play it the way it should be played, the thing is invulnerable to EP loss from anything you have. So, essentially, you need to just deduct 9WP and 9 EP at the start of the fight. And then you have to survive four rounds of combat at a ration of maybe -7 or so for an average CS Grey Star with Alether. I guess I'm some kind of ubergeek... my first time on the Kleasa fight, I looked at the numbers, did the math in my head, and decided that no way I could last 4 rounds even if the 5th round was an insta-win (it's not - it goes to a section with -5 WP/WP); my best strategy was in using about half my willpower each round to wipe the sucker out within two rounds (preferably 1) or die trying. I won, but was so depleted after that, everything was a potential game-ender. |
|
|
|
Post by torben on Apr 4, 2010 16:57:45 GMT
In favour of GS1, I would like to say that the Kleasa fight can actually be managed, if you are willing to pump 10+ WP every round - maybe even more, since depending on your initial stats winning in round 1 or 2 might be your only chance to survive the massive E-drain. If e.g. you use 15WP each round - it is possible to pump your WP high enough before - you have a 66% chance of defeating the Kleasa in two rounds with a maximum E-loss of 21 even at -11.
In general, as for the topic, I liked the GS books better than where LW headed after book 10, the Marvel abilities that LW attains plus the IMHO rather bland black-white conflict between two godly superpowers for me drops off against the otherworldy feel of GS with conflict parties that are more than cosmics pawns. It is also noteworthy that both GS as well as Shasarak actively choose their side in the conflict rather than just being some God's creation. Thus essentially, GS is about characters that make conscious moral choices whereas LW is about characters that just follow their destiny, and the former rings better with me than the latter.
And on top of it, GS even scores with a chick, and he is so good at it that he can convince Tanith to abandon Mother Magri after talking for her like five minutes - that is one hell of a smoothtalker!
|
|
|
|
Post by johntfs on Apr 4, 2010 19:19:22 GMT
While I enjoy the series, one of the problems with Lone Wolf is that people deal with him based more on what he is (Last of the Kai) than who he is. Tanith seemed interested in Grey Star more because he was a cute boy who said something nice to her than anything else. Also, Grey Star is interesting in that he has to make choices and take actions that aren't necessarily heroic in order to get the job done.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zipp on Apr 5, 2010 6:45:09 GMT
Damn, I've never played the Grey Star books. Maybe I should go do that at some point.
|
|
|
|
Post by johntfs on Apr 5, 2010 15:26:39 GMT
You really should, especially since they're free on this site.
|
|
|
|
Post by Zipp on Apr 5, 2010 19:43:38 GMT
Yeah, I'll probably read them prior to setting up a Shadakine adventure for my campaigners. Hell, getting to Shadaki can be a campaign in itself.
|
|
|
|
Post by johntfs on Apr 5, 2010 20:12:45 GMT
You might also want to read through the first two "New Order" books, especially "The Buccaneers of Shadaki."
|
|
|
|
Post by pi4t on Apr 6, 2010 15:42:15 GMT
...essentially a 2 part campaign to get to Shadaki!
|
|
