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Post by Dave on May 5, 2010 17:40:59 GMT
Note a mandated discipline in Weaponskill: When you enter combat carrying this weapon, you add 2 points to your COMBAT SKILL. No ifs ands or but, no flavour text. You enter combat with that weapon, you are better with it than not. BUT, again there is some interpretation left to the reader. If I have weaponskill with a dagger, and enter combat "carrying" it, I add +2 to my CS. Now if I'm also entering combat with the Sommerswerd, I should add +8 from that. I think we are mostly agreed that Lone wolf isn't dual-wielding, but if that dagger is in your inventory, you are "carrying" it! Perhaps it's psychological advantage... Regardless, half the fun of playing this game is figuring out which rules you'd like to follow (or rather, how to interpret the rules)
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Post by jellyfish on May 6, 2010 15:15:38 GMT
Note a mandated discipline in Weaponskill: When you enter combat carrying this weapon, you add 2 points to your COMBAT SKILL. No ifs ands or but, no flavour text. You enter combat with that weapon, you are better with it than not. BUT, again there is some interpretation left to the reader. If I have weaponskill with a dagger, and enter combat "carrying" it, I add +2 to my CS. Now if I'm also entering combat with the Sommerswerd, I should add +8 from that. I think we are mostly agreed that Lone wolf isn't dual-wielding, but if that dagger is in your inventory, you are "carrying" it! Perhaps it's psychological advantage... Regardless, half the fun of playing this game is figuring out which rules you'd like to follow (or rather, how to interpret the rules) Nice. Also, notice that the rules just say "add 2 points to your CS" and don't mention subtracting anything afterwards. So, every time you enter combat with your dagger strapped to your belt, your CS increases by another 2, permanently. Awesome. Seriously, rules-lawyering a single player game is the worst form of wank imaginable. The intuitive meaning of these rules are clear, people are just messing around with semantics.
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Post by Zero on May 6, 2010 16:44:57 GMT
Nice. Also, notice that the rules just say "add 2 points to your CS" and don't mention subtracting anything afterwards. So, every time you enter combat with your dagger strapped to your belt, your CS increases by another 2, permanently. Awesome. Well, buddy, god help you if you enter combat unarmed then. "If you enter a combat with no weapons, deduct 4 points from your COMBAT SKILL and fight with your bare hands."
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Post by Dave on May 6, 2010 19:59:26 GMT
That makes me wonder if anyone has tried a "bare-handed" play-through... Karate chop! Hi-yah!
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Post by beowuuf on May 6, 2010 21:05:00 GMT
And my point is made, although I get the feeling every comment on this page assumes I was actually arguing the same thing as I was railing against, in a different direction.
Anyway, yes, there is an obvious spirit of the rules, but there is plenty room for fuzzy intepretations, and it irked me that there seemed to be some indications around for a generally accepted stance on issues liek not healing all damage, even though the rules don't support it.
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Post by johntfs on May 7, 2010 2:21:55 GMT
That makes me wonder if anyone has tried a "bare-handed" play-through... Karate chop! Hi-yah! I suppose you could. Good luck punching out the Chaos-Master in Book 11, though...
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Post by champskees on Oct 24, 2018 19:59:05 GMT
Hmm some excellent points made here.
Is there an official stance on the healing discipline? If not, is there a mainstream interpretation available?
I used to always play healing as +1 EN after every section regardless of how the damage was caused.
That is obviously overpowered, and essentially makes something like the hunting discipline (or even meals for that matter) fairly redundant. Because of this, I don't allow it to restore EN lost from hunger, anything else seems fair game though.
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Post by Ofecks on Oct 24, 2018 21:38:01 GMT
Seventh Sense's "by the book" ruleset separates damage taken into 3 different categories - combat (and combat-like non-combat situations), starvation, and "other". Sometimes there is a bit of confusion on whether a particular damage source fits into its chosen category, but it's mostly consistent.
Healing disciplines (Curing-Archmaster emergency heal included) only cure the first category, giving them a much-needed nerf. Potions and other methods (like sleeping or a hearty meal) cure all 3, making them far more valuable than they otherwise would be. You cannot use healing potions in sections with combat until the combat has been successfully resolved (and you didn't evade). Additionally, you can only use 1 buff-type item (Alether/Adgana, etc.) per combat.
Barring some setup headaches, SS is still the best playing aid software so I consider Dave's implementations to be canon to gameplay.
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Post by Thomas Wolmer on Oct 24, 2018 22:10:07 GMT
While Healing, and the Curing Archmaster boost, specifically state that they only heal combat wounds, Curing does not. So I think Seventh Sense is too restrictive there, even though the exclusion of starvation damage is appealing.
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Post by champskees on Oct 26, 2018 0:21:18 GMT
Seventh Sense's "by the book" ruleset separates damage taken into 3 different categories - combat (and combat-like non-combat situations), starvation, and "other". Sometimes there is a bit of confusion on whether a particular damage source fits into its chosen category, but it's mostly consistent. Healing disciplines (Curing-Archmaster emergency heal included) only cure the first category, giving them a much-needed nerf. Potions and other methods (like sleeping or a hearty meal) cure all 3, making them far more valuable than they otherwise would be. You cannot use healing potions in sections with combat until the combat has been successfully resolved (and you didn't evade). Additionally, you can only use 1 buff-type item (Alether/Adgana, etc.) per combat. Barring some setup headaches, SS is still the best playing aid software so I consider Dave's implementations to be canon to gameplay. Thankyou. Could you give me a couple of examples of EN loss that is considered 'other'?
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Post by Ofecks on Oct 26, 2018 2:14:28 GMT
"Other" tends to be most EP losses that occur outside of combat: falling and twisting your ankle, suffering snow-blindedness, getting hit by a Mindblast, etc. I say "most" because there are cases where this damage occurs in a combat-like situation where it is treated as combat damage (outside of combat during the Battle of Ruanon, for example). While Healing, and the Curing Archmaster boost, specifically state that they only heal combat wounds, Curing does not. Yeah it could stand to reason that a hidden benefit of Curing, since it is Healing rank 2 basically, is that it now heals more things in addition to the new handling of toxins and poisons. I mean, the SS rules that Kai Healing can't heal damage from snow-blindedness seems in contrast with the nature of the discipline. Again, I'm sure Dave thought about that extensively while coming to his decision. You can always play via custom rules and disable the damage separation if you so wish, the only caveat is it forfeits earning achievements (a major feature of SS).
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Post by greg on Nov 18, 2018 11:10:32 GMT
I am somewhat torn with healing of all sorts.
1. There is only one sort of damage, so any form of healing must cure everything.
2. The more experienced gamer in me says hunger isn't the same as combat wounds.
3. Some of the books give no quarter, (I'm looking at you Chaos Master), so we as players should use every advantage we can get, without actually cheating.
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Post by Nym90 on Nov 18, 2018 19:46:16 GMT
If Healing could cure starvation damage, Hunting would be a mostly pointless discipline. So it seems reasonable to exclude starvation damage from being cured by Healing.
On the other hand, at no point are you instructed in the books to keep track of how your Endurance points were lost so that you will know whether or not they can be restored later. So it doesn't seem it was Joe's intention that it be as complex as it now is being discussed.
I think the best balance is to have Healing restore all but starvation damage, while potions and all other sources of endurance restoration restores all EP loss regardless of source.
There is still the matter of that phrase "Endurance points lost in combat". I personally think that was just flavour text that wasn't meant to be taken literally, but it is reasonable to take the opposite position. The number of Endurance points lost in combat is something you would naturally have a record of in your action chart, as opposed to the other sources of EP loss.
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Post by Honza on Nov 19, 2018 10:46:54 GMT
... There is still the matter of that phrase "Endurance points lost in combat". ... Well, I am a little bit more strict with this. I personally heal with healing and potions combat damage. -3 EP from starving I subtract from initial EP and it cannot be healed till the end of book (but if there is some meal with +EP, it will "heal" starvation damage). Noncombat damage (scratches, bruises, mental attack) I heal only with potions.
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Post by Nym90 on Nov 19, 2018 20:39:16 GMT
... There is still the matter of that phrase "Endurance points lost in combat". ... Well, I am a little bit more strict with this. I personally heal with healing and potions combat damage. -3 EP from starving I subtract from initial EP and it cannot be healed till the end of book (but if there is some meal with +EP, it will "heal" starvation damage). Noncombat damage (scratches, bruises, mental attack) I heal only with potions. Your way of handling starvation is interesting. An unanswered question regarding the Endurance loss for not eating is: have you lost Endurance simply because you are hungry (in which case it should be able to be restored if you obtain a meal in the future, or if you have Hunting, the next time you are no longer in a barren wasteland where your skill can't be used) or have you caused yourself more permanent health damage due to not eating? Logically the first seems more appropriate, but of course the books never say you can restore Endurance in this way.
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