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Post by Thomas Wolmer on Sept 13, 2004 7:52:50 GMT
And that +4CS potion from Book 3 ? Come on, there must be at least 10 years between Books 3 and 11. Does any medieval potion have a shelf-life that long ? That can of course be debated, but if you check the description in Section 317 of Book 3, it doesn't seem like 10 years or so extra would make much difference... Clearly yes I'd say, but it does require maxed stats and equipment. Had I been the original editor of these books, I'd have told Joe I thought he'd made a mistake here... [ Edit: Aargh, beaten by Ghost Bear. When shall one learn to always reload the page before posting... ]
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Post by Black Cat on Sept 13, 2004 17:30:22 GMT
Is there a fair way through (fair = as the rules are written) that doesn't assume you picked CS=19, got every Special Item in the whole series, added every possible bonus you can have at that point, and were suddenly blessed with the luck of the gods? Of course it is possible! To fight the Chaosmaster, you need either the Sommerswerd or the Ironheart Broadsword. If you fight with the Broadsword, the stats of the Chaosmaster are lower (40/58 instead of 47/68 with the Sommerswerd). If you don't have any discipline that gives a bonus, and if you get a starting CS of 10 (the lowest you can get), you add 8 CS from the Ironheart Broadsword for a total of 18 CS and a Combat Ratio of -22 (-11 or less on the Combat Results Table). So, to be sure to beat the Chaosmaster, you need to get 10 straight times the 0 on the Random Number Table. There is nine 0s on the Table of that book. So, you have 9% of the chance to get a 0 every time. BUT, this doesn't mean that you have 9% of chances to beat the Chaosmaster. The probability is even smaller to get 10 times a 0. But it is possible to beat him like that, just like it is possible to win twice the jackpot at the weekly lottery (it happened a few years ago in Canada)... If you really want to play by the rules, you might want to play with an extended Combat Results Table that gives results to Combat Ratios up to -30. With a CR of -22, I guess that, with any number you might get on the Random Number Table, you automatically die.
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Post by Oiseau on Sept 13, 2004 19:14:27 GMT
Uh ... Black Cat ?... How is that supposed to be a good thing ? ;D
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Post by Black Cat on Sept 14, 2004 3:23:43 GMT
Well, you wanted to know a way to beat the Chaosmaster without cheating or getting all the Special Items and bonuses. I gave it to you, but as you said, you have to be suddenly blessed by the luck of the gods to win this fight. The point is there's no way you can have a reasonnable chance to beat the Chaosmaster if you don't have any bonuses of some kind. And these bonuses are parts of the rules! And as a matter of fact, I did beat the Chaosmaster (on the internet version of book 11) by sticking to the rules (and with the Sommerswerd!) but I needed these bonuses to do so. Conclusion: it is possible to beat the Chaosmaster with the Sommerswerd by sticking to the rules, but you'll need some kind of bonus...and a little bit of luck!
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Evanta forgot to login
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Post by Evanta forgot to login on Sept 18, 2004 17:33:45 GMT
I think the key is to complete the Circle of the Spirit and Circle of Fire discipline groups.
Just those 2 combined with Sommerswerd: +8 Sommerswerd +3 CS for Circle of Spirit +1 CS for Circle of Fire +4 CS for Weaponmastery (improved Magnakai bonus) +2 CS for the special Circle of Spirit bonus +4 for Psi-Surge (u lose 2 EP, but you can't use Mindblast anyway) = +22 CS, only 25 pts (so to speak) to break even, and have a reasonable chance against the Chaosmaster.
You can achieve this by: Silver Helm (+2 CS, from book 4) Combat Shield (+2 CS, book 6) Concentrated Alether Potion (+4 CS, from book 4)
This gives +8, so you are fine with a starting CS of 17 from book 1.
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Post by Black Cat on Sept 18, 2004 20:47:20 GMT
You forgot to mention that the Psi-Surge gives +6CS and a lost of only 1 EP per rounds when you reach the rank of Archmaster (9 disciplines).
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Post by Oiseau on Sept 19, 2004 1:02:43 GMT
But this can only be achieved in Book 12 ! ;D
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Post by Evanta on Sept 19, 2004 16:16:33 GMT
I think the key is to complete the Circle of the Spirit and Circle of Fire discipline groups. Just those 2 combined with Sommerswerd: +8 Sommerswerd +3 CS for Circle of Spirit +1 CS for Circle of Fire +4 CS for Weaponmastery (improved Magnakai bonus) +2 CS for the special Circle of Spirit bonus +4 for Psi-Surge (u lose 2 EP, but you can't use Mindblast anyway) = +22 CS, only 25 pts (so to speak) to break even, and have a reasonable chance against the Chaosmaster. You can achieve this by: Silver Helm (+2 CS, from book 4) Combat Shield (+2 CS, book 6) Concentrated Alether Potion (+4 CS, from book 4) This gives +8, so you are fine with a starting CS of 17 from book 1. Minor point, you can complete the circle of Solaris too for an additional +1 CS. EP total would be +12, +8 from circles and +4 chainmail tunic. I consider helmet to be non-stackable with silver helm and padded tunic non-stackable with chainmail. However my gripe with the Chaosmaster being this way is that you have to build your LW in specific ways and go through specific paths to get him to survive this one battle. The other one is that LW built this way unfortunately trashes most other fights so badly it's almost not worth bothering to fight at all.
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columbob
Kai Lord
Up the Irons!
Posts: 161
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Post by columbob on Sept 19, 2004 21:07:42 GMT
EP total would be +12, +8 from circles and +4 chainmail tunic. I consider helmet to be non-stackable with silver helm and padded tunic non-stackable with chainmail. Joe himself said in one newsletter that you could stack the padded coat under a chainmail waistcoat.
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Post by Black Cat on Sept 19, 2004 22:06:40 GMT
But this can only be achieved in Book 12 ! ;D Oops...you're right. Well, then, this little 2 CS bonus is not that useful in book 12 because you "zap" (as it is said in another topic) Gnaag with your Sommerswerd, so you don't have to fight that very strong ennemy. If you don't use it to kill him, you get 12 CS from the weapon you hold (Helshezag or the Dagger of Vashna). How unfair is this: your Arch-Nemesis is easier to kill than the Chaosmaster! I can't understand why an ennemy like the Chaosmaster, that you discover is existence only in book 11 (except if you have played Grey Star) is harder to beat than the guy that is supposed to threaten you in almost every book of the Magnakai series.
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Post by Grayzie on Sept 22, 2004 9:46:03 GMT
The thing that always bugged me about the Chaos-master (aside from the minus CR) was his huge EP. I mean, 68?! At best my LW would be roughly high 30s. So I'd have to roll (I use a ten-sided die) three or four zeros/nines just to bring him down to the same EP level. Then I could start taking him out...
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Post by Bane Don on Sept 22, 2004 11:45:10 GMT
What's all the fuss about the chaos master in particular. Yes he is hard, but Zakhan Kimah from book 9, 2 books earlier, is just as hard. He has 44:50 (if you have Sommerswerd), you don't get the 2CS bonus, *and* he is immune to psi-surge.
And Kalkoth from book 3 > all.
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Holmes I didnt sign in
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Post by Holmes I didnt sign in on Sept 22, 2004 12:34:51 GMT
What's all the fuss about the chaos master in particular. Yes he is hard, but Zakhan Kimah from book 9, 2 books earlier, is just as hard. He has 44:50 (if you have Sommerswerd), you don't get the 2CS bonus, *and* he is immune to psi-surge. And Kalkoth from book 3 > all. I believe it's because there are alternative paths around fighting the Kalkoth in Book 3, and easier ways to take on Kimah. There are only two ways to get around the Chaosmaster: 1. Use the Sommerswerd - with at best about about a 25-30% win rate in my experience (if you don't cheat), or 2. Use the Ironheart Broadsword - which raises the win percentages dramatically, but means that it's highly likely the Villians of Sommerlund will rub out Lone Wolf later in the book.
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Post by Grayzie on Sept 23, 2004 10:38:36 GMT
What's all the fuss about the chaos master in particular. Yes he is hard, but Zakhan Kimah from book 9, 2 books earlier, is just as hard. He has 44:50 (if you have Sommerswerd), you don't get the 2CS bonus, *and* he is immune to psi-surge. And Kalkoth from book 3 > all. Zakhan Kimah is not nearly as difficult as the Chaos-master, the key point being the EP difference between them and LW. Both play around -6/5 but ZK's EP can be less than 20 off LW's. You only need two rolls of 7-0 to bring him into the same EP range as LW and then it becomes a rollfest. Roll 6 or better and you'll win. Maybe tough but certainly not impossible. Plus it's the last battle of the book. With the Chaos-master you generally start with 30 less EP than he, meaning that at -6/5 you'd have to first roll four 9-0 just to get equal footing for EP exchange afterwards. And has already been pointed out, even if you survive the Chaos-master you still have to take on the Villians of Sommerlund.
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columbob
Kai Lord
Up the Irons!
Posts: 161
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Post by columbob on Sept 23, 2004 18:09:52 GMT
You can achieve this by: Silver Helm (+2 CS, from book 4) Concentrated Alether Potion (+4 CS, from book 4) BTW, those are from book 3.
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