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Post by stillheron on Jun 12, 2005 20:29:42 GMT
thanx outspaced now ive got to run around deleteing the same question in all the other forums lol
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 13, 2005 5:07:13 GMT
Is there any reason why ALL the Darklords have to die, if any darklords were close enough to the darklands when the transfusor destroyed Helgedad there is no reason why they should die. Their influence would be reduced (certainly). BUT when Zagarna massacred the Kai (in book 1) he would have assumed he killed everyone until told otherwise (yes I know Vonotar knew otherwise but Zagarna's opinion does not change till new information comes). So, my question is were all the darklords killed, or is that everyone's perception until new information comes along ( or a new story thread developed that informs everyone that something changes offically)
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 13, 2005 5:16:03 GMT
Also, for those who don't have the darklands book (from Mongoose) Lord Khantellu is described as"Naar started with a snake and changed his mind several times", with crushing jaws, an affinity to snakes and a brute. I red the fiction (and liked it ). I'm not being argumentative just saying that there are other rules running around. So where does that leave this?
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Post by outspaced on Jun 13, 2005 8:51:49 GMT
The idea of the Transfusor is that it powers their "life-support systems", since they cannot breathe the clean, unpolluted air outside the Darklands. The power fails, their air tanks fail, they die.
(Similarly, the aliens in John Christopher's Tripods trilogy couldn't breathe oxygen, which is why they travelled in huge metal tripods, and why they lived in huge domed cities. So it's been done before.)
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andyr
Kai Lord
Posts: 122
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Post by andyr on Jun 13, 2005 9:47:27 GMT
Going back to material from the Mongoose RPG, and I wonder if they have some privileged Dever materials (like their detailed Telchos background), there seems to be a Darklord in the Maakenmire city of V'Ka... and he seems to permanently reside there with no problem in MS5000, before the Transfussor were invented... So, as things are now, LW would have missed that one. Unless, of course, it is a convenient device for the Pre-Fall of the Kai Monastery setting of MGP: it is a good climax for any campaign to have heroes beat up a Darklord, but most of them have roles in the future timeline. Having this mysterious dude, which can get killed by PCs before LW is even born, sounds like a plotline for those who don't want to change the timeline post MS 5050 dramatically.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 13, 2005 14:12:26 GMT
Perhaps, though Banedon tells you in The Masters of Darkness (Section 94): " '[Gnaag's] sorcerers, the Nadziranim, created devices they call "Tanoz-tukor" to enable each of the Darklords to survive in territories outside their accursed realm. Previously they had been unable to survive beyond the Darklands for any great length of time and, during these rare, brief excursions, their powers were greatly reduced. Now they are able to lead their armies in battle personally, and they have been eager to exercise their new-found freedom.' " And further, in Section 166: " '[W]ith the Darklords leading their armies in the field, the defences of the Black City are now at their weakest. Only Gnaag and his second-in-command, Darklord Taktaal, reside there at present.' " So all of the Darklords, saving Kraagenskul, Taktaal, and Gnaag are out in the pure air of Magnamund, many miles from The Darklands. When their power is reduced once more, particularly in sunlight (e.g. Haakon in Shadow on the Sand), and their troops have deserted them in panic, they are not going to be able to stagger back to The Darklands. As for a Darklord in V'ka, he would have been moved from there by Gnaag by MS5067 (when The Masters of Darkness takes place) as per the text printed above. Maakenmire being a foul morass of swamp, it is quite likely that the air be polluted and unclean. So nothing actually contradicts. Yay!
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Post by Al on Jun 14, 2005 11:02:26 GMT
Hi All If I can add my two cents in... I think this can be interpreted in the following manner. 1. The canon is generally interpreted to mean that they are all dead, therefore they are all dead. 'nuff said. 2. The canon may be interpreted to say that the posibility exists (were all the bodies of the darklords recovered? I do not think so, therefore, because it is impossible to disprove a negative, their is always the possibility... maybe they are hiding in Tweed, Ontario with Elvis) 3. Its your game, you can do what you want with it, if you want a darklord, have yourself a darklord. I personally can think if you are using this as a story line then why not? It would make a really intersting one, especially if the Darklord in question was using the fact that it was general knowledge that the Darklords are dead to secretly rebuild... i think you could have a lot of fun with that.
Now I have a question, in relation to HW, what do you mean that all the Kai are wiped out? Are you refering to the War that takes place while LW is away in LW 11? I have always wondered that myself, as the books are not clear to me when LW starts retraining the Kai.
Later, Al
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 14, 2005 13:25:03 GMT
I cannot agree more with Allan on all three points, remembering it's your game! The game books are not clear when LW starts retraining the Kai, but I doubt it would have been before Book 12. As LW is based at Dessi from Book 7 till Book 10 (and has no opportunity to return till after Book 12 realistically). So unless there are some Kai spending a long time on their own I don't see training happening till after Gnaag's death. Nor would I (as LW, no I am Ben Hur,) start training new Kai when so much time and other's expectation (read intro to Book 9) is placed on LW achieving Grand Master and destroying the Darklords.
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Post by Al on Jun 14, 2005 14:22:47 GMT
Hey Runeheart,
nice to be agreed with! (A change from my normal life!)
The more I was thinking about this, the more I like the idea of a darklord surviving... That could prove so much fun in a campaign... not only would it offer the traditional "villian in the background" kind of scenario... it would be totally unexpected when the PCs finally did find out who or what have been pulling their strings for so long. You could even have the competing armies in the Darklands under his ultimate control just for the purposes of keeping appearances (only senior Generals would know who was in control, but they would not know that he ultimately is in control of the enemy as well, sort of an Emperor in Star Wars kind of thing)... man my mind is working away like mad thinking about this now. That is good, becuase I should be working right now!
Later Al
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Post by outspaced on Jun 14, 2005 14:52:18 GMT
Ugh! Personally, I'd hate it if the DM kept pulling out old dead enemies from the hat! It undermines the accomplishments of the PCs, I think. But then that's just me; everyone has their own style and opinions. Of course, a Darklord being alive would also ignore the entirety of the Grand Master series, which requires those pesky varmints be deaded. Except Vashna, who is permanently undeaded. And I quite like the storylines found in the GM series: Vashna, Ixia, Vaxagore, Wolf's Bane, Kekataag . . . And for a piddling little Darklord to be behind everything when Naar has other, far more powerful minions would also strike me as odd. Still, it's "your" story and I certainly don't want to rain on your parade.
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 14, 2005 15:01:41 GMT
My only worry about your ideas is that the evil dudes never work in concert together (I know there is the black muster and all), but everyone pedals their own agenda to the exclusion of all others and even the detrement of the evil dudes 'team'. So as much as the puppeteer emperor idea is great! imagine the amount of work involved to keep everyone moving towards a common goal and not killing each other at the same time. Thats why lots of evil dudes can be defeated by a skilled and highly motivated few (or one) sound familiar.
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Post by Al on Jun 14, 2005 15:27:41 GMT
Nothing wrong with a nemisis from the past turning up to haunt the future, and besides, in a RPG you would not be playing LW, you would be playing a whole bunch of other characters. I am not sure I aggree, though, that the GM series requires that all the darklords be dead, in fact, I would say that having a darklord (one that has been seriosly weakened, and having to bide his time and rebuild his power) would make an excellent villianous mastermind in adventures taking place long after LW has departed from this mortal coil...
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Post by Dusk Fox on Jun 14, 2005 18:50:42 GMT
For RPGs, these are all tried and true (alternately old and cliched) villain hooks. The main idea is this, and it works similarly to playing a Rebellion-era Star Wars game:
If you want to play according to CANON, all the Darklords die, and Lone Wolf is the only Kai Lord around at the time. All Kai Lords come either after the Darklords die or before the Feast of Fehmarn, and if the latter, all but one of the Darklords is alive at the time and no Kai Lords have killed any. Of course, going this route means you can't really use any of the villains from the books, because Lone Wolf dispatches the lot of them.
If you want to play according to ADJUSTED CANON, then you can make small changes for the sake of your campaign. This includes having a few other Kai Lords survive and wage their war on the forces of Naar, have a single Darklord or a few Darklords survive Lone Wolf's genocidal rampage against their misunderstood race, or throw other Magnamund villains at the characters and have them content with the group as well as Lone Wolf (if you even have a Lone Wolf).
If you want to play according to the WHATEVER I WANT style of gaming, then you can do whatever you want and it doesn’t really matter what canon says. If you want to have the Darklords ally with the Dark Jedi, the Dark Crystal, and the Pirates of Dark Water, you go right ahead.
Unfortunately, this is a balance of what you want and what your group wants--if you want to play with a bunch of extra surviving Darklords and Kai Lords and your group wants to play absolute canon and have only one Kai Lord who plays Lone Wolf’s role, you may be in trouble.
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Post by Al on Jun 15, 2005 8:15:37 GMT
"This includes having a few other Kai Lords survive and wage their war on the forces of Naar, have a single Darklord or a few Darklords survive Lone Wolf's genocidal rampage against their misunderstood race, or throw other Magnamund villains at the characters and have them content with the group as well as Lone Wolf (if you even have a Lone Wolf)."
That, my friend, is some funny stuff. I agree, though, that you have to go with what your group likes, nothing worse than a DM going off on some strange and totally unrealistic tangent in a game!
I just think that the old villian from the past routine is a good one, but only if played properly by the DM... a surviving Darklord would not be something that charactors are likely to run into in a random dungeon environment! I just think it would make an excellent sinister shadow in the background kind of charactor that after a long long time the PCs start to suspect, and of course no one would believe them as all the Darklords are dead... (and of course, their is the opposite, that all the DLs are dead and someone/thing is pretending to be a surviving Darklord, that would be a good plot line as well)
Al
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Post by Ghost Bear on Jun 15, 2005 18:08:21 GMT
And for a piddling little Darklord to be behind everything when Naar has other, far more powerful minions would also strike me as odd. Still, it's "your" story and I certainly don't want to rain on your parade. Well in the ERPG, the piddling little Darklord buggered off to the Daziarn before the start of events in Book 13. Problem solved. -GB PS: Hey everyone! We can say bugger! PPS: Bugger, bugger, bugger, bugger, bugger! PPPS: Sorry.
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