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Post by Al on Jun 16, 2005 14:12:01 GMT
That is what I mean, if LW was just going there to destroy the trasfuzor, then killing three darklords was a definate bonus... if I recal correctly it was just chance that he killed all three that were in the darklands.. am I wrong on that? (this is where a more senior person on the forum corrects my ignorance), if that is the case then the darklords were not intentionally wiped out, which is fundamentally different than if LW intentionally went on one of Dusk Fox's "genocidal rampage."
I am just trying to figure out the mindset of LW et al when he went on his suicide mission to the Darklands (because, after all, that is what it was)
Al
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 16, 2005 14:22:55 GMT
Yes, his suicidal mission was to destroy the transfusor and kill Gnaag ( I just checked the book. and the transfusor is called Tanoz-tukor), as for LW's mind set he was going to save the world ( of course, what else does he do),Banedon shows a map covered in black markers that represent the countries that have fallen to Gnaag.Yes the mission was a desperate 'last roll of the dice' because the naval blockade (from Argazad) was starving Sommerlund.
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Post by Al on Jun 16, 2005 14:29:06 GMT
That is what I mean, his mission was not to kill all the darklords, rather it was to take out Gnaag and destroy the transfusor (in effect hit thier supply lines, Sun Tzu would be proud) not wipe out the Darklords...
I am saying this because this thread is about darklords surviving, and if LW did not go out to wipe them out then was their ever a real check done to ensure that they are all dead? I just think that this leads into a good scenario for the re-introduction of a Darklord, if you want to take that route (and that is what this post is about!)
Al
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 16, 2005 14:30:07 GMT
Sorry, so if everything had gone to plan then LW would not have gone to Argazad,the boat would have sailed to Aarnak (and the encounter with the DL would not have happened, and low and behold, one DL survives). On this point, I think it sucks when people that you killed come back into an adventure, but LW doesn't personally kill them all.(A long and drawn out task that would be).
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Post by Al on Jun 16, 2005 14:35:33 GMT
I agree with that one, if you killed them they are dead, but how many DL bodies are unaccounted for in the Canon? I do not know the answer to that? Does any one? Also, this means that it was never LWs intention to wipe out the Darklords. Al PS This is a great conversation to be having, it is making our post numbers just skyrocket!
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Post by Runeheart on Jun 16, 2005 14:44:38 GMT
My only problem is it's 12:30am and Ishould of been in bed hours ago, my wife will kill me,'yes I wont long dear'. And now you bring up the ultimate question, what does the canon say?(outspaced will have a field day now) the books say they are all dead.... But as it's been said before, what better twist then finding an enemy that you thought was killed.
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Post by Al on Jun 16, 2005 14:46:53 GMT
I was wondering what time it was in Auzzie land! and on that note... over to Outspaced!
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Post by Dusk Fox on Jun 16, 2005 16:55:29 GMT
If you can get your hands on any of the New Order Series there is a table at the front that might lend some inspiration. Be careful though my brother ended up with "swift dancer" then got "moon strider", so now I call him "moon walker" it's cruel I know. Moon Walker, the Kai Lord. Youngest of five brothers, who despite their many talents never reached the acclaim of the least among them. No one really understood his unique take on Camouflage (making surgical alterations to his appearance every few weeks in order to radically change his profile, build, and coloration), his signature Mindblast attacks (shouting "HEE-hee" or "SHA-mon" in order to disorient his opponents), or his bizarre Weaponskill combat stance (which required him to attack his opponents by walking backward). His wardrobe was outlandish, often described as a cross between a Drakkarim captain and a Lakuri pirate in a Dwarf hat, and yet his meek and humble demeanor and selfless defense of Sommerlund's children made him a legend in his own time. We raise our swords to Moon Walker, for he is Good, he's Good, and you know it. The whole of Magnamund must answer right now, as I tell you once again--he is Good.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 16, 2005 16:58:33 GMT
"A more senior person" would usually be Thomas, but since he's not around for a couple of weeks, it's probably going to fall to me. According to the Lone Wolf Club Newsletter New Year's Special 1987, there should be 15 Darklords alive in MS5067, when The Masters of Darkness takes place. Zagarna and Haakon are dead by Lone Wolf's own hands. Unc and Ghurch were killed in the civil war in Helgedad when Gnaag rose to power. Vashna is in the Maakengorge. If Lone Wolf kills Kraagenskul, Taktaal and Gnaag in his journey through the Darklands, theoretically there should be twelve left. However, the fact that Naar is *ahem* cheesed off by the start of The Plague-lords of Ruel indicates to me that there are no chances of any Darklords returning to The Darklands alive, otherwise he would still be using them in some way. What is more, the Xaghash and Nadziranim of the Darkland cities--all of whom are allied to a particular Darklord--are 'fighting for control and power' over the denizens of these strongholds. So plenty of those returned to The Darklands; surely if one of their masters had survived they would either (i) be serving him; or (ii) have offed him in his weakened state through disillusionment and a lust for power. The Captives of Kaag proves this. Finally, the reclamation of The Darklands under the hands of the Elder Magi is well underway (c.f. the map in The Captives of Kaag). This seems to have begun almost immediately, so I'm sure the Elder Magi would have been able to detect whether anyone as powerful as a Darklord would have passed. In fact, I would be of the opinion that both the Elder Magi and the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star would be able to detect in the aether whether there were still any Darklords present on Magnamund. Of course, there's also this quote from Lone Wolf Club Newsletter #11 which states: Edit: Darn tags
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Post by Dusk Fox on Jun 16, 2005 17:03:07 GMT
I agree with that one, if you killed them they are dead, but how many DL bodies are unaccounted for in the Canon? I do not know the answer to that? Does any one? Also, this means that it was never LWs intention to wipe out the Darklords. Al PS This is a great conversation to be having, it is making our post numbers just skyrocket! I don't think there's any accounting of Darklord bodies, but I'd imagine there was a lot of magical scrying and double-checking done to ascertain the truth of the matter. That, and the Darklands began receding, which was taken as a sign that their evil had passed. Of course, you could do anything you wanted in a LW RPG campaign, so if you want a Darklord to live, then do it, but they're all pretty dead, canonically-speaking. As for it not being LW's intention to wipe out the Darklords... well, this is untrue. It was not his direct mission to destroy all of the Darklords at that time, but when has Lone Wolf ever not made a point of killing Darklords (or totally curb-stomping any attempt to resurrect one)? In fact, this is even more damning for his cause, as he was supposed to be there to destroy the Transfusor, but he takes a detour to kill Kraagenskul, and then totally murders Taktaal before slaying Gnaag (the only Darklord he was directly out to kill) and then making himself the direct cause of the deaths of every other surviving Darklord. In fact, Lone Wolf is the only Kai Lord ever to kill a Darklord, and he killed seventeen of them. That, my friends, is a genocidal rampage.
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Post by North Star on Jun 16, 2005 20:42:10 GMT
Actually, he only killed four in close combat. Zagarna was from a LONG distance and the other fifteen were indirectly when the Darklords suddenly found themselves unprotected out of the Darklands. When it comes down to it, Lone Wolf is only the second mortal to slay a Darklord - the first being King Ulnar who slew Vashna.
NS.
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Post by Dusk Fox on Jun 16, 2005 21:09:38 GMT
Splitting hairs, North Star. If I cut the fuel line to a plane and it goes down and explodes and seventy-six people die, I just killed seventy-six people, even if I only intended to kill ten, and I only directly killed two technicians with an umbrella in order to get to the fuel line.
Okay, graphic example, but point taken.
Lone Wolf kills four in close combat, blasts one from a moderate distance, and causes the disintigration of the final twelve all at the same time. He only missed killing Ghurch and Unc because the forces of Naar beat him to it, and he made up for not being born in time to kill Vashna by preventing his resurrection twice.
Genocidal rampage.
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Post by outspaced on Jun 16, 2005 21:11:31 GMT
Nah, Vashna was never properly killed, that's why every (evil) man and his (equally evil) dog on Magnamund want to bring him back. Lone Wolf actually properly killed his Darklords, killed them dead.
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Post by Dusk Fox on Jun 16, 2005 21:29:35 GMT
Right. Like I said, he wasn't born in time to kill Vashna--that botched amateur job was done before he was born, but he thwarts every attempt at resurrection. He's got his Sommlending jackboot on the throat of the Darklord race, and he's grinding his heel. Those poor misunderstood Darklords.
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Post by North Star on Jun 16, 2005 22:22:59 GMT
Though of course at any time Naar could restore the ones not destroyed by the Sommerswerd, as evidenced by the return of the two Zagarna killed.
NS.
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