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Post by beowuuf on Jan 24, 2008 18:43:38 GMT
Well, it does feel liek the other gods are added for the LWRPG, but it could be based on JD's notes
I'm sure the guy killed might have been worshipped by the drakkarim, but was not a god, just a powerful being
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Post by blaise on Jan 24, 2008 18:50:29 GMT
I can't find the document I was reading online but I think it was based on The legends. It says that there were 2 groups of god: Light and Darkness. Kai and Ishir have risen to become the leaders of the Gods of light and good, while Naar became the leader of the Gods of darkness and evil. They are powerful but none of them is omniscient.
I don't think we can find a definition of what a God is... what is a God, if not a powerful being worshipped by lower beings?
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Post by beowuuf on Jan 24, 2008 20:08:29 GMT
I think for the purposes of the Aon universe a god is somehting so powerful it has no beginning and no end as far as that universe is concerned, and the idea that LW can kill Naar smacks of fans wishing to munchkin their hero beyond a certain logical level
If gods could be killed by mortals, Naar has had champions in a powerful position twice to kill Ishir and Kai before the gods of good could put something new in place
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Post by Wise Eagle on Jan 24, 2008 20:33:14 GMT
Spoiler : If I recall correctly, Lone Wolf killed one of these Gods in book 20. I can't remember the name, it was the warrior God worship by the drakarrims.So there would be 3 Gods left, maximum. Lone Wolf did not really kill him. The Tome of Darkness said he would be reborn afterwards. Besides, there are countless domains and powerful evil lords and ladies on the Plane of Darkness. Probably 6-7 mentioned only in Book 20 alone.
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Post by blaise on Jan 24, 2008 20:39:24 GMT
Sorry for the light spoiler but I can not resist.
SPOILER from of the first few sections of book 20 :
While Lone Wolf is preparing to leave, Rimoah mentions that maybe the summerswerd can kill Naar himself.
While I agree it would be kind of weird, the idea is on the table. Maybe not actually killing him, but a physical victory of Lone Wolf over Naar in a duel could end up in Naar being asleep for thousands of years afterwards. Like Sauron was in the Lord of the rings.
But, as far as book 20 goes, only the drakarrim warrior god receives the title of "god". The others receive other denominations. For example, Shamath is a demon, Huanzhor is a "lord of dragons", etc.
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Post by Black Cat on Jan 24, 2008 21:01:34 GMT
A reference to another evil god: in book 13, Xuzargha, Cenerese god of Pestilence, is mentionned.
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Post by Wise Eagle on Jan 24, 2008 21:54:27 GMT
But as far as we know none of these entities had sent someone to Magnamund or aided someone in Magnamund and Zantaz had. You have to be known to be worshipped as a God.
Besides, you can be worshipped as a God without being a God. This was happening to the Shianti after them crafting the Moonstone, for instance.
Overall worshipping of powerful entities as Gods is a wide-spread 'habit' in any fantasy setting. So Lone Wolf remembering that the Drakkarim worshipping Zantaz as a God does not really tell us that he is a God.
(The term God is quite subjective anyway, since the term is not an exact one and has meant vastly different things in different cultures over the ages.)
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Post by beowuuf on Jan 24, 2008 22:58:23 GMT
Sorry for the light spoiler but I can not resist. [/color] Actually, it's lord Ardan, and he just says it might have the possibility to smite the dark god himself Which is possible, it is a powerful weapon of light, i#m sure it's prescence alone let alone touch would bring Naar discomfort. I'm also sure that there is a big different between landing a heavy blow on someone and killing them - just ask anyone trying to kill kimah or the chaos master with normal stats in the gamebooks Also, what you don't see is ardan saying that, you feeling bouyed up, then behind your back ardan and rimoah share looks and share their heads and draw their fingers across their throats sadly then resume normal expressions when you turn back around
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Post by Black Cat on Jun 10, 2008 16:35:47 GMT
Now we know the title for book 29 ( The Storms of Chai, for those that have missed it). Based on that title, someone posted something interesting over at TotS about the story: I like this idea. We've just killed Sejanoz in book 28 and now there's some storms in Chai... Oh... I just thought of something... Book 16: storms in Magador because someone is trying to resurrect Vashna. Could it be...? There are trying to resurrect Sejanoz or... Agarash?!? Well, I'm eager now to read that book.
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Post by Black Cat on Nov 13, 2008 17:24:34 GMT
Am I the only one thinking that the new novels are putting the table for the events that will be described in the last four books? They're taking place shortly before book 29, and from I read in The Dragons of Lencia (haven't started Glory & Greed yet), there's a threat rising in Telchoi with the Agarashi Rising (hence the name of one of the trilogies) and another one in Lencia with the invasion of the country by the Drakkarim. Adding to this that JD said that books 31 and 32 will be about a World War ( Rising Sun 18), then I think it's crucial for people (but not obligatory) to read the novels to get a better view at what is coming. Now I'm guessing that if Agarash is about to return, he will probably try to wipe out all the human races, including the Drakkarim. Will they join force with the nations of the Freelands to face this common threat?
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Post by zorkraan on Nov 14, 2008 21:52:58 GMT
Hello everyone! I am a french fan of Lone Wolf since 20 years and because of my not fluent english I have always feared to join you... But I finally decided to join your fantastic site that helped me to discover unpublished lone wolf volumes in France such as the Skull of Agarash, The Magnamund Compagnon and the lone Wolf Club Newsletters.
For my first post here, I am compelled to take part this topic, because I have been waiting for Lone Wolf series' end for nearly ten years now. I totally agree with BlackCat when he says that the new novels of August Hahn and Richard ford prepare us to the coming end of the series. But not only these novels. As I have read in this topic, the entire New Order Series prepare us for a return of Agarash the Damned. The Fall of the Blood Mountain, The Rune War, The Hunger of Sejanoz and Vampirium have shown us a foretast of the true power of the Son of Naar. The The whole series of the New Order is a long stake on the way of the resurrection of Agarash according to me. The references to him and the occurrences of his Legacy (The Doomstones, the Claw of Naar, the Runes and Zorkaan, SHom' Zaa, Naaros, Sejanoz the Vampire) are too numerous, the series cannot have another end. And certainly, both novels Glory and Greed and Dragons of Lencia show us that Agarashi, in PL 5100, are about to take back the hostilities which they had abandoned more than 8000 years ago. When we know that hordes of Agarashi do exist under Gorgoron in Dessi, under Kraknalorg in Starn, under Telchos, under Vaduzhan, in Danarg, under Skaror, under Ogia, under Ghatan, in Kelderwastes, under Chai, doubtless to Kalte (if Shiantis did not exterminate them all), in Kasland, indeed we can say that a world war is a possibility! And if we consider, and Joe Dever spoke about it in his interview, that the series Grey Star is official, then we know that the spirit of Agarash always exists, imprisoned somewhere... And what Shasarak is with him!
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Post by zorkraan on Nov 14, 2008 22:40:43 GMT
Following what I wrote in my previous topic, the question is: How Agarash can return? In 2002 I imagined a sequel to the Lone Wolf series. Here it is (I apologize for my not fluent english, please check the idea ): Evil forces of all Magnamund, Agarashi, Darkspawn and Drakkarim had lifted up themselves simultaneously to plunge the world into a blood bath. This blood bath was not fortuitous. The souls of every deaths were inexorably enticed by the Claw of Naar, which the Elder Magi of Dessi did not succeed in destroying in Elzian after it was taken back at the end of "Vampirium". Loaded with an immense power, the Claw was stolen from Elzian by Sesketera, come with its redoubtable vessel Trianon, during an attack of diversion of Agarashi from Gorgoron. Sesketera then took the Claw of Naar up to the deepest place of Magnamund (by way of the chasm of the Nengud-Kor-Adez).There, using the Claw, he generated a gigantic explosion tearing the weft of the universe and opening the Well of the Eternal Pain, the prison where Agarash and Shasarak were imprisoned since the end of "War of the Wizards". This Well was another dimension created by the energy of the core of Magnamund. But especially Sesketera had made sure to leave enough clues behind him so that Lone Wolf and his Kai Great Masters managed to follow his track. Because if the Kaï Lords had included that Sesketera and his allies wanted to open the Portal of Agarash, they ignored that this last one could return in Magnamund only thanks to an exchange with a person of comparable power. It was what the Grand Master (Hero of the New Order Series) understood by fighting the Agarashi in Southern Magnamund and freeing Grey star they had captured since the end of "The Buccaneers of Shadaki". Grey Star revealed the Grand Master how Naar had stolen from him the Moonstone decades earlier. And he aslo explained him how Agarash could truly return on Magnamund. The Grand Master arrived too late to warn Solitary Wolf of the trap gone up against him. The Supreme Master was betrayed by one of his own followers, convinced in his dreams by Shasarak to reject the ideology of Kaï. For some years, the Shianti renegade with its immense knowledge and lore had managed to throw its spirit outside his magic prison. He had thus haunted the dreams of one of the Kai Grand masters to show him that the independence face to face gods were preferable to the eternal servitude to the Light, which aimed only at a final victory in front of Darkness and not the good for people of Aon. This Kai Grand Master thus attacked in the back Lone Wolf, which was thrown in the Portal of Agarash. Agarash was freed, as well as Shasarak by the sacrifice of one of the others Kai Grand Masters. Lone Wolf brought out of this trap only thanks to its Spiritual Walk (I am not sure of the term in english, his spirit is walking outside his body ^^), which allowed its spirit to stay on Magnamund while his body was imprisoned. While Agarash went away, Lone Wolf attacked with his Mind powers his follower who had betrayed him and sent him to take his place in the magical prison in a desperate movement, which he will regret eternally. Freed Agarash launched then a global war against Magnamund. He resurrected Vashna thanks to the Claw of Naar, instrument so powerful as the Deathstaff ("Legacy of Vashna"), to make his lieutenant. Magnamund was thus forced to face the troops of Naaros AND of the Darklands, while resisting to shianti magic of Shasarak the Great. Threatened of estinction too, Drakkarim became allied to the Free Nations, for the war of the survival. Agarash gave them another unpleasant surprise. Flanked by his new right hands, he crossed the Sea of Dreams to attack the Shiantis on Isle of Lorn. In the term of a terrible magic fight, he overcame them and stole them Moonstone, which since it had been restored to them, did not have been able to be sent back into Daziarn... Naar had skilfully corrupted it before Lone Wolf gets back it in Dazganon, exactly with the aim of this day. With the Moonstone, Agarash was invincible and could win alone the Universal War between Light and Darkness. Using the Moonstone, he activated a terrible earthquake which made Naaros heighten itself to make it most high mountain of the world. And from there, he called upon all the power of the Moonstone to realize an unprecedented spell: the constitution of the most immense of all the Shadow Gate... So big that Magnamund, then doubtless the rest of Aon, would be sucked up in the Plane of Darkness, sealing for ever the final victory of Naar. Lone wolf and the Kai Grand Master led the final war against the Evil, a huge army including Sommlending, Drodarins, Elder Magi, Vaderians, Nael, Aluvian, Vassa, Mhytenian, survivors of the Shianti (freed by Ishir) and even Drakkarim. On the summit of the new Peak of Naaros took place the biggest fight of the history. Grey Star helped by Banedon faced again Shasarak without Moonstone. The Kai Grand Master faced Vashna. And Lone Wolf and Alyss faced together Agarash. The demigoddess could not leave alone her champion. Lone wolf succeeded in taking the Moonstone from Agarash, but died in the process, while the Grand Master, Banedon and Grey Star succeeded in shooting down Vashna and Shasarak. Guided by Alyss, the survivors found then the means to turn the spell of the Prince of the Evil against him... Magnamund was saved. And Alyss drove Lone Wolf towards the paradise so that he can sit as Noumas in the right of God Kaï. I know: I did not included Princess Oriah, in fact I suggested she could became the girlfriend of the Grand Master, but not anymore. May be some of you were right for her great role in the great final...
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Post by borbrewdrinker on Oct 19, 2009 15:40:31 GMT
My Theory:
There needs to be a disaster that precludes the final conflict with the return of Agarash.
I think the Elder Magi are going to be wiped out. I don't want to spoil it, but there's a scene in book 22 that kind of foreshadows the twilight of the Elder Magi.
Perhaps the destruction of the Elder Magi will weaken the bonds that hold Agarash in damnation? Plus it will give the final books some emotional push as the Kai would want to avenge their goodly forebears, trusted advisors, and ancient allies.
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Post by Black Cat on Oct 24, 2009 21:31:00 GMT
Well, recently, Joe mentionned that some kind of World War will be taking place in the last few books. The events described in the new novels give hints towards this. The Elder Magi being wiped out might be a plausible thing that will happen.
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Post by torben on Nov 20, 2009 3:30:09 GMT
A cool idea for books 29-32 would be if Lone Wolf has to fight against Grey Star who has become tyrant of Southern Magnamund. It could be an interesting analysis about how power corrupts, how the freedom fighter of the past became the dictator of tomorrow and why it did happen so. This could also delve into the matter of how rule is justified. I admit that this would not fit into the manichaean theme of the books, though...
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